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Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

58K views 119 replies 28 participants last post by  Tigger19687 
#1 ·
Now that I have found a wild bee colony and bees are excepting the hive body I've set in front of their hive with a queen cell in it, how long will it take the Queen to abscond? I think I have thought of a way to capture her on her exit but need to know when to place my gadget on the trap out.
 
#28 ·
Having looked at Cleo's photos, and the design of the swarmharvester trap, and talked to my mentor, learning about making a funnel out of 1/8th inch hardware cloth, which I have an ample quantity of. I'm also thinking about drilling a clear bee exit, and just mounting the box bracket around it. (waiting for customer approval about that. hmmm... this has potential. Wall Concrete Art


My mentor says it's pretty impossible to get the queen out. But I have a strange character trait - tell me it's impossible and I just put in more effort....

Gypsi
 
#29 ·
Gypsi.. Your mentor is mostly correct. It is almost impossible to get a queen "out". The difference here is, with the trap as I use it, the queen is not going "out". She is simply going into another chamber of her hive, much the same as moving up into a second brood chamber, or moving laterally, , since the trap is sealed and is an integral part of her hive. If you make the transition out of wire, enclose it with black plastic so it doesn't appear as daylight between your source and the trap. Try to get your trap as close as you can to the feral brood nest so she doesn't have to come very far to go into your trap. Good Luck. cchoganjr
 
#30 ·
I have a locally made deep not good for much but a cover box over a feeder, I think it will make an excellent trap - without much sacrifice. A 1x4 wooden box mounted to the side of the house, a smaller 1x tube going both out and into the deep, I will have to put some 8 ft 2x4's under the solid bottom tray/entrance to hold it up, and get some large staples (dadant apparently cut them from my order) to tack the bottom tray to the deep, put a cover on it, comb in it with some empty frames, and some lemongrass oil. Will I need any kind of feed in it?

For tonight / tomorrow, just going to build the wood tubes, try to mount the solid wood box bracket - that will be sufficiently tricky - I wouldn't trust duct tape to hold it on 8 ft in the air. some wings of hardware cloth that I can staple to the siding at top and sides, a piece of duct tape going to the brick?

I figure this will be almost as much an adventure as a cutout before I'm through, but I'm having fun, and it's for a good cause.... Beees......
 
#31 ·
Gypsi.... If I understand what you ae doing, you are mating the deep to the feral source. If so, you don't need lemongrass oil or feed. What you have done, is, give the bees another chamber, much the same as putting another deep on top of a single deep, except in this case it is adjacent to, not over, the feral source. Unless you have unsealed brood to put in the trap about all you will get are guard bees at the new entrance, a few cleaners who will clean the walls, floor, and frames in the trap, and later some field bees who will likely start using it as a place to store surplus honey. It is the unsealed brood that brings out the queen to investigate who layed those eggs, and nurse bees to tend the new brood. Unsealed brood is the key to making this system work. Additional drawn combs gives the queen a place to lay when she comes to investigate. After placing a frame of unsealed brood, you will normally get enough bees in 24-36 hours to start a new hive, and most often you will have the queen, as she will stay in the trap with the drawn combs and lay them full, then return to the feral source to lay eggs.

I never start trapping too early in the Spring, because you need to give the queen a little time to build up the feral colony and need the room to lay more eggs.

Houses are the most difficult to get the queen because typically it is more difficult to locate your trap close to the feral brood nest. Quite often the bee entrance in a house is not close to the brood nest. Quite often they enter the house and then may go several feet to the actual hive. The trap works best in trees and tanks because you can mate your trap very close to the feral brood nest.

Good Luck.

cchoganjr
 
#32 ·
Cleo,

I did a lot of youtube viewing over the last week. And when I ordered from Dadant, I ordered Beequick. The present method for keeping the bees from leaving their nest via the interior of the house involves napkins stuffed in the crack. After I have the connection to the deep trap, and the trap installed, but no funnel, and worker bees are out there storing stuff, what would happen if I sprayed Beequick into the nest from the inside of the house (the direction I do not want them to move) then re-plugged their interior exit?

I have been helping a friend of mine feed his bees up to get his queen to start laying, so by the time I am ready I may have some brood or eggs to draw the queen. They are taking candy and sugar well now.

Gypsi
 
#33 · (Edited)
I have never found beequick to be very effective, in any application, (perhaps some people have), and I have never used it in a trapout. If you used the beequick, and if the bees come rushing out as they evacuate the hive, unless you have a funnel or a wire cone installed, there would be nothing to keep them from just going back as soon as the odor is gone. And the odor might linger in the trap and cause bees to hang outside the house until the odor is gone.

This trapping principle works when you fool the bees into thinking your trap is just another chamber of their hive. And they start treating it as home. Once you put the brood in the trap, you are going to get bees, lots of bees, and hopefully the queen. In order to eliminate the colony you will need to install the funnel or wire cone so bees can't go back to the feral colony. Don't close off the tunnel until the queen has had a chance to get into the trap. I doubt that she will come through the scree cone or the funnel. I don't know that I have ever had one to come through it.

Good Luck. cchoganjr
 
#35 ·
Guess Beequick is another fine scientific investment I've made then, LOL... Thank you Mr. Hogan. I'll be finding out where the feral hive is going in and out over the next few days, and converting a couple of semi-worthless deeps into attachable swarm traps... Woohoo! nothing goes to waste.
 
#38 ·
It is in the works. I did not have access to a video camera until a couple months ago, and I had so many people wanting a video to go along with the written material on making "D" shaped hand holds with a skil saw.

I have been trapping for about 25 years, and have still photos of traps in progress that I have sent to perhaps 75 people in the last month. (anyone that wants them, e-mail me at cchoganjr@scrtc.com) In recent years I have not done as much trapping because gas is so expensive if the trees are several miles away, and lately I just don't have the time.

If you notice on my photobucket, I have the transition on two trees and will start trapping them in mid April. I took three starts from each of these this year. I plan to make a video showing each step of the process as the trapping progresses. I hope to get three from each this year, and if I find any other local trees I will trap them also. Have promise of at least two more, just have to wait and see.

Link to Photobucket..... http://s841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/cchoganjr/

Always happy to help beekeepers.

cchoganjr
 
#43 ·
It is in the works.
That is really good news. You are a wealth of knowledge and I know several of us await that video. I have a few opportunities to use the swarm harvester and need to send you an email so that I can get your detailed instructions. I for one think that there should be a sticky on this forum where you can post the instructions. Barry, are you listening?:D
 
#40 ·
well, I just need some honey. I've got the Beequick. I will be building 2 trap hives in deeps, based on the diagram from Kelley - I've got 2 deeps that will never do for stacking with supers, etc, courtesy of extremely poor workmanship. And I now have a 2nd house that wants their bees removed alive, a bit farther away than the first one. The experiment is ON... I have got to cut wood and put it together when I am awake enough to keep fingers attached.

Gypsi
 
#41 ·
Gypsi
If you can work it out with the home owner, you could have a gold mine there, and get a bunch of new starts from this hive. This will also ensure the bees use up all the honey in the old comb, preventing any other pests like ants and cockroaches.
A frame of brood from a friend every few weeks and in return give them some starts.
 
#44 ·
Gypsi
If you can work it out with the home owner, you could have a gold mine there, and get a bunch of new starts from this hive. This will also ensure the bees use up all the honey in the old comb, preventing any other pests like ants and cockroaches.
I'm hoping so - maybe not all from one homeowner, but think how many sevin dust kills this could prevent. Getting the queen on a trapout is unknown in my bee club locally. Unless the hive can be cutout quickly, apparently it is a dead loss, and whether an exterminator or a beekeeper, the bees are killed?

I still want to know who killed all the bees in my neighborhood in 2010. Probably I already have met them, maybe I don't want to know.
I'm thinking about a magnetic sign that says "bee rescue" for my truck, if this works. I'm finishing building tonight, going to test mount the swarm catcher 8 ft up on the inside of my garage wall to test balance, support, etc. Will take pictures of the equipment and post them.

Gypsi
 
#45 ·
I guess I offended half off the people who do removals, I do apologize, I tried to edit the post from my cell phone, blew the browser, and now it's too late to edit.. It was not my intent to be mean and sarcastic. Rather to be honest.
Bees most serious disease issue in my part of Texas (DFW) appears to be humanity, particularly humans with Sevin dust. I just don't see the disease and varroa issue creating half the challenge that suburban civilization with pesticide use is doing.

I had regular work today, about 12 hours of it. I have not figured out how to attach this modified deep swarm harvest 8 feet above the ground, and 8 feet below the eaves of the house, and have it not vulnerable to wind, and not creating a hazard to humans below. A box of bees on the head would not be a good thing. But it is my sincere intent to figure out how. I got in this to do better removals, and to have bees to pollinate my garden, and other gardens. Honey would be nice, income from bee removals, splits, nucs, would be nice. But my first thing is to keep a few bees alive around here. I think the Swarm Harvester idea is a very good one, if I can adapt it to houses. Because there just aren't that many bee trees in the city.

Wood Wood stain Plywood Hardwood Table


Gypsi
 
#46 ·
Gypsi,

Get three 2x4's that are 8' long. Two will be for the "back legs" and the third is to make a platform to rest the trap out hive on. If is wood siding, drill a couple holes in the 2x4 and screw the platform to the house. Make sure you have attached the 2x4 legs to the front of the platform first, just makes things easier! If the house is stucco/brick, use a masonary bit and drill a couple holes then insert the expandable plastic inserts in the hole, like the ones used for hanging pictures in sheetrock. After your done with the trap out, remove everything and use a putty to seal the holes.

Hope this helps!!
 
#48 ·
I think I'm going to expand on BeeGhost's idea. I have a 6 ft tall tower shelf in my garage, built for a closet 10 years ago, overbuilt, 2x4's and 3/4 inch thick removable shelves. If I need something for varying heights at varying times, and sway proof to boot, I add the extra 2 ft of height at the bottom with both vertical and angled out boards that widen the foot print at ground level. Bolts with butterfly nuts.

I want stable, sturdy, storeable, and re-usable easily. Because I have a funny feeling this may be a common situation. when not in use, gold up the lower legs, stack the saw blade sharpener, insulation and junk back on it in the garage.

I can also use ground anchored ties (when we get wind here it is serious wind,) and a couple of drilled in bolts to the house, either into masonry, or into solid framing through the siding. Got customer's permission to drill the bees a new entrance, so I can mount to all siding, I'll caulk the edge they've been using and drill the hole on Monday when it's colder. I also have figured out how to improve on the napkin situation to block the interior access. Home Depot sells this wonderful foam tube to stuff in window frames in different diameters. I use 3/8 on my aluminum windows, removable caulk but not sticky, just foam. I think 5/8 would totally block the bees access to the house, since the LIGHT is what is drawing them. Only 2 bees got in since my last visit, a huge improvement. Afterward, can leave the stuff in place or remove, either way. Maybe $5. Thanks for all your help. Eating dinner, and testing my support stuff. I'll be out on my day job for about 14 hours tomorrow.

Gypsi
 
#50 ·
Wow Rick, that's a tall one. I've got my 6 ft, well braced closet shelving unit painted (for weather proofing - it's 10 years old but never been rained on. Building the lower 2 ft, adjustable section tonight if I can stay awake, and then I think I'm ready to set it up early tomorrow morning. I had some truck issues that interfered with today's schedule greatly. (and almost stranded me Saturday evening coming home from "work" 50 miles away after dark, not fun.) L brackets with screws going into the mortar holding that at the top? Yes.

Gypsi
 
#52 ·
I've got pipe strap. and that is an excellent idea. With no fence to keep people away from mine, while the homeowners won't mess with it, I don't know if there are unsupervised children on this street. Kids do find trouble. I've got to get the liability waiver signed as well. Before I put anything up. In the morning.

Gypsi
 
#53 ·
The trap is set. I drilled a 3/4 inch opening into the center of the trap entrance, and I caulked up the areas where the bees had been coming out around the left corner of the siding with pure silicone caulk. L brackets on the very solid tower, L brackets on the trap mount, screwed into 2x4 behind the siding, I'm comfortable that it's not coming down. Homeowner would NOT have been comfortable with us drilling into her already crumbly mortar and brick. Ladder Shelf Furniture Wood Tool
It's all good. She knows where the bees are supposed to come out, and now, we wait. When we see them using the hive, I need to get open brood?

Gypsi
 
#56 ·
Those bees aren't going to be going anywhere for a couple of days, it's cold out. So I have a bit of time before I buy a nuc to steal its brood (no, I'm not kidding - I have zero bees until my ordered nucs come in April). On the setup, the larger wooden tube (about 4.5 inches square) wrapped in black plastic is bolted to the house. an inner tube, roughly 2.75 inches square, slips into it, and into the back of the bait hive. Standard solid bottom board with bottom entrance is screwed to the hive, facing away from the house, so they exit the tube into the hive, and exit the hive to the outside world. (Dadant missed my staples on my order). And for an eventual funnel, before I solidly mounted the inner tube, I stapled windowscreening around it. Right now, it's wide open. A twist tie will turn it into a funnel when I'm ready, after the queen is in the bait hive.
Wood Wood stain Plywood Floor Hardwood
Plywood Wood Table Roof Floor


I put in 5 frames on the side away from the entrance. 2 covered with comb (sprayed with BT), 3 empty, that I can swap out for brood when I get it. No LGO - don't want to attract a new swarm to the box. and I did my best to seal their other exits, inside the house and out. So now, before I get comb, I wait to see if they will come out the 3/4 inch diameter hole we drilled in the siding, at the center of the dual tubes. We'll see.
 
#57 ·
Gypsi...Yes you need drawn comb now or else you will have to wait until the bees run out of space in the feral area for them to move out into the trap and go to work. Without drawn comb, the guard bees will move out to the new entrance, some cleaners/housekeepers will move out to clean the trap, and that is perhaps all unless you have the funnel in place. Even then, the field bees will have no place to deposit pollen/nectar until cells are drawn. Wax drawers will not come out until they need aditional comb.

ktmwoodsrider..... I believe he is using the Hogan Swarm Trap Method and the trap has become an integral part of the colony. Connected to the feral colony in the rear. The bees do not leave the source except through the trap. Can only get back in, through the trap. Once he introduces unsealed brood, he will get nurse bees, housekeepers, fanners, drones, everything he needs for starts, and if the rear entrance is not too far from the feral brood nest, the queen will come into the trap to investigate how eggs got into her hive. At that point she will start laying in the trap and can be moved with the bees in the trap. cchoganjr
 
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