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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    1,738

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    heaflaw, yes, initially the bees will try to enter at the end of the deep super (near original entrance) if you install the trap during the day, and field bees are already in the field. First step is to install the transition on the tree, close off all entrances and let the bees go through this transition, (you can see one attached to a tree in my photobucket) for a couple or three days. Then always try to mate the trap (your deep super) to the tree, very early in the morning,(before daylight and before the bees become active), or on a cloudy, rainy day when bees are not flying. Same principle as moving bees. This way the bees come through the transition, through the trap, then to the outside. They are then orientated on the front of the trap, not the rear. When the bees become active, the first thing that will happen is, guard bees will move to the front of the trap. Initially all you get is field bees, then housekeepers will start cleaning the trap and working the comb you have put in the trap. After a day or so add the unsealed brood, (no bees on the comb), and that brings nurse bees, more housekeepers, fanners, and the queen to investigate this brood, and to tend the brood. That is what gives you a perfect mix for a start, or to start depleting the feral colony.

    If you are going to trap next Spring, go ahead now, and install the transition on the tree, close all the entrances except the transition, and let them get used to coming and going, through it, and only it, on any days this winter they are flying. Construct whatever you are going to need to support the trap, (boxes, portable deer stand, cables) whatever, now, so when Spring comes all you need to do is slide the trap over the tree transition and seal the two transitions with duct tape.

    I don't recommend adding the trap now, (wait until you are ready to trap in the Spring,) as that will invite mice to move in.

    Hope this has been helpful. cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 12-29-2011 at 05:23 AM. Reason: add info

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ballard County, KY
    Posts
    348

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Cleo- Wow thank you for the information, looking forward to trying this in the spring.

    Tim

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,099

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    How about instead of using the small boxes as the passageway to the deep, use a short piece of dryer vent hose. It could be easily turned in different directions and you have more leeway lining up the deep.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,738

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Dryer hose, two pieces of pipe or PVC, build a wooden tunnel, any way to mate the box with the tree is all you need. Keep the distance between the trap and the tree as close as you can. The two tunnels slide inside each other and just makes it fast and easy to remove the trap from the tree. I typically slide the trap off, and then slide another trap on for the next trapping. Three to five starts per year is normal for a good tree, I have taken as many as nine in one season.

    One reason I use the wooden tunnels is, if I can attach the transition to the tree securely, I let the transition support the trap. Push the trap onto the tree transition, duct tape together, then the trap is hanging to the tree, supported by the transition. If this is not feasible, then use boxes, cables, deer stand, whatever you need to support the trap.

    The main reason for the wooden tunnel is that it is easy to drill a hole in the wooden tunnel and install the small red funnel. It is easier to drill in wood than pipes. If you are only going to take starts from the tree, you don't need the funnel. It only comes into play when you are wanting to eliminate the colony by preventing bees returning to the feral colony.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 12-29-2011 at 09:32 AM. Reason: additional info

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,738

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Here is a link to my photobucket which shows two traps with the transitions already on the trees for next Spring.

    .http://s841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/cchoganjr/

    cchoganjr

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    I would like to publically thank Cleo for sending me info and pictures on how to trap out bees!! It takes a very good person to take their personal time to send a wealth of knowledge to someone they dont know. Thanks Cleo!! Will follow up with with pictures from my trap outs!!...........Jason
    Coyote Creek Bees

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,752

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Thank you CCHOGAN! Because of the height, I think I'll be doing some very creative adaptation, but I believe this thread had the answers I needed.

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,752

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Having looked at Cleo's photos, and the design of the swarmharvester trap, and talked to my mentor, learning about making a funnel out of 1/8th inch hardware cloth, which I have an ample quantity of. I'm also thinking about drilling a clear bee exit, and just mounting the box bracket around it. (waiting for customer approval about that. hmmm... this has potential. jeans_trap_proposal.jpg

    My mentor says it's pretty impossible to get the queen out. But I have a strange character trait - tell me it's impossible and I just put in more effort....

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,738

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Gypsi.. Your mentor is mostly correct. It is almost impossible to get a queen "out". The difference here is, with the trap as I use it, the queen is not going "out". She is simply going into another chamber of her hive, much the same as moving up into a second brood chamber, or moving laterally, , since the trap is sealed and is an integral part of her hive. If you make the transition out of wire, enclose it with black plastic so it doesn't appear as daylight between your source and the trap. Try to get your trap as close as you can to the feral brood nest so she doesn't have to come very far to go into your trap. Good Luck. cchoganjr

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,752

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    I have a locally made deep not good for much but a cover box over a feeder, I think it will make an excellent trap - without much sacrifice. A 1x4 wooden box mounted to the side of the house, a smaller 1x tube going both out and into the deep, I will have to put some 8 ft 2x4's under the solid bottom tray/entrance to hold it up, and get some large staples (dadant apparently cut them from my order) to tack the bottom tray to the deep, put a cover on it, comb in it with some empty frames, and some lemongrass oil. Will I need any kind of feed in it?

    For tonight / tomorrow, just going to build the wood tubes, try to mount the solid wood box bracket - that will be sufficiently tricky - I wouldn't trust duct tape to hold it on 8 ft in the air. some wings of hardware cloth that I can staple to the siding at top and sides, a piece of duct tape going to the brick?

    I figure this will be almost as much an adventure as a cutout before I'm through, but I'm having fun, and it's for a good cause.... Beees......
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Gypsi.... If I understand what you ae doing, you are mating the deep to the feral source. If so, you don't need lemongrass oil or feed. What you have done, is, give the bees another chamber, much the same as putting another deep on top of a single deep, except in this case it is adjacent to, not over, the feral source. Unless you have unsealed brood to put in the trap about all you will get are guard bees at the new entrance, a few cleaners who will clean the walls, floor, and frames in the trap, and later some field bees who will likely start using it as a place to store surplus honey. It is the unsealed brood that brings out the queen to investigate who layed those eggs, and nurse bees to tend the new brood. Unsealed brood is the key to making this system work. Additional drawn combs gives the queen a place to lay when she comes to investigate. After placing a frame of unsealed brood, you will normally get enough bees in 24-36 hours to start a new hive, and most often you will have the queen, as she will stay in the trap with the drawn combs and lay them full, then return to the feral source to lay eggs.

    I never start trapping too early in the Spring, because you need to give the queen a little time to build up the feral colony and need the room to lay more eggs.

    Houses are the most difficult to get the queen because typically it is more difficult to locate your trap close to the feral brood nest. Quite often the bee entrance in a house is not close to the brood nest. Quite often they enter the house and then may go several feet to the actual hive. The trap works best in trees and tanks because you can mate your trap very close to the feral brood nest.

    Good Luck.

    cchoganjr

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
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    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Cleo,

    I did a lot of youtube viewing over the last week. And when I ordered from Dadant, I ordered Beequick. The present method for keeping the bees from leaving their nest via the interior of the house involves napkins stuffed in the crack. After I have the connection to the deep trap, and the trap installed, but no funnel, and worker bees are out there storing stuff, what would happen if I sprayed Beequick into the nest from the inside of the house (the direction I do not want them to move) then re-plugged their interior exit?

    I have been helping a friend of mine feed his bees up to get his queen to start laying, so by the time I am ready I may have some brood or eggs to draw the queen. They are taking candy and sugar well now.

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    I have never found beequick to be very effective, in any application, (perhaps some people have), and I have never used it in a trapout. If you used the beequick, and if the bees come rushing out as they evacuate the hive, unless you have a funnel or a wire cone installed, there would be nothing to keep them from just going back as soon as the odor is gone. And the odor might linger in the trap and cause bees to hang outside the house until the odor is gone.

    This trapping principle works when you fool the bees into thinking your trap is just another chamber of their hive. And they start treating it as home. Once you put the brood in the trap, you are going to get bees, lots of bees, and hopefully the queen. In order to eliminate the colony you will need to install the funnel or wire cone so bees can't go back to the feral colony. Don't close off the tunnel until the queen has had a chance to get into the trap. I doubt that she will come through the scree cone or the funnel. I don't know that I have ever had one to come through it.

    Good Luck. cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 01-31-2012 at 05:28 AM. Reason: spelling

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
    Posts
    3,536

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    I have never found beequick to be very effective,
    Thank you Mr.Hogan I thought I was the only one that couldn`t get that stuff to work.
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,752

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Guess Beequick is another fine scientific investment I've made then, LOL... Thank you Mr. Hogan. I'll be finding out where the feral hive is going in and out over the next few days, and converting a couple of semi-worthless deeps into attachable swarm traps... Woohoo! nothing goes to waste.
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Bee Go will work, but always work it 8 miles away, make sure you are up wind, wearing a respirator, 40 feet underground in a bunker, with a 6 million cubic foot per second ventilation system.

    Beequick does smell good. I have often wondered if you put it on like aftershave, could you work AHB, or agitated bees. cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 01-31-2012 at 09:01 AM. Reason: add info, correct spelling

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Barry, TX USA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    Here is a link to my photobucket which shows two traps with the transitions already on the trees for next Spring.
    I sure do appreciate your beesource posts, pictures and also your youtube video showing how to make a handhold. I don't know if you are taking requests or not but I'm going to be bold and ask for a video showing your swarm harvester in action.
    When you stop learning you're dead.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    It is in the works. I did not have access to a video camera until a couple months ago, and I had so many people wanting a video to go along with the written material on making "D" shaped hand holds with a skil saw.

    I have been trapping for about 25 years, and have still photos of traps in progress that I have sent to perhaps 75 people in the last month. (anyone that wants them, e-mail me at cchoganjr@scrtc.com) In recent years I have not done as much trapping because gas is so expensive if the trees are several miles away, and lately I just don't have the time.

    If you notice on my photobucket, I have the transition on two trees and will start trapping them in mid April. I took three starts from each of these this year. I plan to make a video showing each step of the process as the trapping progresses. I hope to get three from each this year, and if I find any other local trees I will trap them also. Have promise of at least two more, just have to wait and see.

    Link to Photobucket..... http://s841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/cchoganjr/

    Always happy to help beekeepers.

    cchoganjr

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
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    1,099

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    I have never found beequick to be very effective, in any application, (perhaps some people have), and I have never used it in a trapout. cchoganjr
    My experience has been that Beequick works fairly well for getting bees out of honey supers, but will not get nurse bees to abandon brood at all.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
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    1,752

    Default Re: Wanting to get the queen from a trap out. HOW?

    well, I just need some honey. I've got the Beequick. I will be building 2 trap hives in deeps, based on the diagram from Kelley - I've got 2 deeps that will never do for stacking with supers, etc, courtesy of extremely poor workmanship. And I now have a 2nd house that wants their bees removed alive, a bit farther away than the first one. The experiment is ON... I have got to cut wood and put it together when I am awake enough to keep fingers attached.

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

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