What should I do - Honey filled hive body, swarm cells

[cdkeller]

I am a first year beekeeper. I have a hive with 2 deeps and 1 super. The second deep is full of honey. I took this deep off, and saw queen cells on top of the lower hive body. I had broken these cells in the process of taking the upper hive body off and there were 2 larvae on the ground and 1 larvae that was in a cell on the lower hive bottom. This hive started out strong in the spring and early summer and is now dwindling in population/ activity, so I am surprised that they would be building swarm cells. I am thinking about putting a medium hive box ( I don't have any more deeps) below the queen excluder. Since they have filled up the 2nd hive body with honey, I suppose there isn't room for brood. Should I go back in and kill the remaining swarm larvae and order a new queen?.

[ralittlefield]

I suppose there isn't room for brood.

That maybe the answer to your question. They may need more space. Do you have a super that you could add?

[mrqb]

is your btm deep full of brood,and or pollen and honey, if you broke them open are you sure they weren't drone , you can put the medium between the deeps if you need more brood area,if the queen is laying good but in need of space i would give them the space and remove the cells, but if there in swarm mode you might not stop them from making another cell if theres eggs to choose from, i would probably have taken off the honey "queen" excluder i've seen where that allows bees to put nectar up high and allows btm. of top deep to be used for brood rearing,are you feeding?

[psfred]

I'm not sure you would tear a queen cell apart taking the brood box off unless it was hanging between frames. If the cells were built between the top of the frames in the bottom box and the bottom of the frame in the top box, likely they are drone cells instead. Easy to tell -- queen cells will be vertical, not horizontal.

You needed to put another super on a couple weeks ago -- when a strong flow hits, the bees can fill a super in a week or less, and since there was no room above, they filled in the top brood box as the brood emerged.

This is normal bee behavior -- since there is little room for brood raising, the hive is reducing in size. They have all the winter stores they want for the size of the hive, and will just idle along until winter unless you provide more room.

If you put on another super, they will probably fill it, and may move honey into it from the upper brood box, but may not depending on when you winter starts and the honey flow. A medium super between the two brood boxes will work fine, too, and probably get the queen laying well again.

Or you can just leave it alone and let them winter as is, leaving the super on for winter stores. Don't know what your fall flow is like, you should see if you can find a beek in your area for better advice on that, these things are very dependent upon your local weather and forage!

Peter

[cdkeller]

Thank you all for your tips. I went back to the hive yesterday and added a medium box above the 2 honey filled hive bodies. My helper was out, and I was unable to lift the honey filled hive body myself. I tried to take some of the frames out, but it was taking me forever and the bees were already pretty agitated. I had placed a honey super with a queen excluder on the top of the hive probably 4 weeks ago. I am not sure why there is relatively little activity there - they must not like the excluder. I have another hive that is filling the honey super with honey, so I am not sure why they are behaving differently. I plan to get back into the hive on Tuesday and reasses. I will look more thoroughly at the cells and determine if they are drone cells rather than queen cells - and with my helper's help, move the medium box inbetween the 2 hive bodies.

[ldaxon]

Yes, you do not necessarily want to put the new box above the two that are already filled with honey. You are trying to add brood space and the queen usually won't cross that much honey to add brood. The brood nest is usually fairly cohesive/contiguous. Put the new box on top of the very bottom box, if that is where the existing brood nest is.

It sounds like you may still have a bit of a flow going on (unless you are feeding), but it is not uncommon for the queen to quit laying or reduce her laying after the flow or while in a dearth, as is going on here in Oklahoma. Never feed with honey supers on. The girls just store up sugar water instead of honey in the cells and you ruin your harvest.