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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Oswego, NY
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Nice use of safety glasses, I must add.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    I was having supper at a restaurant with several of the current prominent "bee scientists" at a conference in Nebraska and the subject came up. They were unanimous in their opinion that the green pressure treated lumber was poisonous to the bees and it was a very bad idea to use it for hives.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Macoupin,Illinois,USA
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    technically thats not Pressure treated and he uses copper8 which i've seen for sale in several bee supply catalogs,still I have to agree it's hard to believe you can use that in hives,but why do they sale it in the supply catalogs?????

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    this is a different treatment than the lumber you buy from lowes. the chemical used be very common and sold by the bee supply houses. not sure of its name or status today. If it killed bees this guy would not have bees or the video.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Copper naphtalate and diesel fuel.

    He uses a 30 day curing time however.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap7Xl...feature=relmfu

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,732

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Some of the wood preservatives where sold years ago to treat HIVE STANDS only.
    Carbolineum was one?
    Crazy Roland

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    >he uses copper8

    Assuming that is Copper Napthenate then in theory it won't hurt bees.

    They used to use creosote on stands...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #9

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Assuming that is Copper Napthenate then in theory it won't hurt bees.
    Depends on who's theory we're using.
    Number 5 in the list.
    http://www.extension.org/pages/58061...onference-2009
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    So, if you preserve your woodenware with copper naphthenate, you'll get 'dumb' bees?

    Heh, heh.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    He also puts ant poison in his hives to control SHB... This guy is nuts. Basically he has a lot of really bad ideas, I would not recommend anybody follow any of his advice.

    Pulled this from his site about his SHB traps.

    NO THE BAIT IS NOT LEGAL FOR INSIDE BEEHIVES

    NO I WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT IS OVER THE PHONE


    I am selling the bait to kill ants, IF a few thousand Small Hive Beetles DIE, TO BAD
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    So, if you preserve your woodenware with copper naphthenate, you'll get 'dumb' bees?
    So it would appear, based on this study.
    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Heh, heh.
    And the funny part is?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  13. #13

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Exposure to a single, interior surface, coated with 2% copper napthenate had a significant impact on a measurable bee behavior. I can’t think of a real world instance where this would be good.

    In the study one interior surface was treated with 2% copper napthenate. How much more of an impact would it have if all of the interior surfaces were coated?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    "And the funny part is? "
    What did Forest Gump's Mama say?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    The only problem with the studies versus real life beekeeping is that you can not tell any difference in colonies in copper napthenate treated hives and nontreated hives.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    This guy was also using what he calls 'copper naphthalate' in diesel. The study used a water soluble copper naphthenate. It could make a difference.

    Regardless, it seems like a long way to go to treat wood (up to 60 days from cutting lumber to finished hive bodies).

  17. #17

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by AR Beekeeper View Post
    The only problem with the studies versus real life beekeeping is that you can not tell any difference in colonies in copper napthenate treated hives and nontreated hives.
    In the ‘old days’ the LD50 of a compound was determined. Then applications of those compounds at levels substantially below that LD50 were presumed to be safe. There is now a body of compelling evidence that sublethal levels of many compounds have a deleterious impact on the health of honeybees. Add to that the evidence that combinations of those sublethal levels of various compounds will have a negative, synergistic effect. I believe that most beekeepers accept this as fact.
    While you may not observe any direct effects of copper napthanate in your hives, there is a clear implication that it does affect bee behavior. In a case like this I tend to err on the side of caution.
    If I believed that the use of copper napthante outweighed the risks, I’d use it. But, I don’t see the need. I’ve used woodenware that had been in service for decades with no rot. Typically the failures are due to wear and tear. The only advantage I see in using copper napthanate is convenience. You dip your woodenware, allow it to dry and you’re done. I can build a load of stuff, stack and spray paint it…..and frankly it seems as easy and probably as cheap. I won’t be using the stuff.
    If you feel the need to, go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    This guy was also using what he calls 'copper naphthalate' in diesel.
    I can’t imagine that improves its effect on bees.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    682

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    This guy has no beesness being on the airwaves...whats that old saying..."an accident waiting to happen"....
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    There are plenty of beekeepers who take preserving woodware to what many of us would consider to be extremes (and even more than a bit ill-advised).

    But, he did say that he had termite and wood rot problems. And quite frankly, those hives did look very nice when painted up.

    Perhaps his method of using diesel, copper naphthalate (whatever product he uses), and some good coats of paint on the outside and inside fronts of his hives works for him.

    You see, while water soluble copper naphthenate has been shown in that study to impair learning and memory in bees, no such data exists for his method.

    Who knows? Maybe it doesn't affect his bees?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,496

    Default Re: Deep Pressure treated supers! Is this guy for real?

    wow...ok...this is going to sound crazy but let me make a suggestion...cleats. Good hand holds and take about 1/1000000000 of the time he took to "deepen" those hand holds.
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

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