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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Rifle, Colorado
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    Default Instrumental Insemination!

    Who sells the tools to do this?
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,142

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Rifle, Colorado
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    117

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Hey Micheal,

    Have you used this instrument?
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
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    457

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Sue Coby also sells the equipment. I just can't get the her site to display the videos correctly.

    http://www.honeybee.breeding.com/

    Pugs

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Winston Salem , NC
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Peter Schley in the UK Good to deal with
    larry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,585

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Peter has exceptional instruments and great service. The latshaw instrument is a little different in its stationary hook and freehand forcep, but is very easy and would be my recommendation for those that are new to ii for two reasons... easy to set up and price. Joe made a few changes to the design this year, and I have not had a chance to use the new model yet, but I'm sure it is just as simple and likely a bit better.

    We have been considering offering Schley supplies here in the US as part of a line of lab products that we hope to launch this fall. But the small market has been a concern. I welcome anyone's input on the matter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,142

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    >Have you used this instrument?

    I have not. I have observed II being done and while it's interesting, it's not what I want. I'm not convinced that I am a better judge than natural selection of what is the best traits for survival and survival has become the most important trait for bees to have. I can select or productivity and gentleness at my end (the queen) but I want those feral drones to mate with them. Nature ( or God or Evolution...) has provided for much diversity in bee mating. I don't think I "know better" than than her.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Rifle, Colorado
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    117

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    We have been considering offering Schley supplies here in the US as part of a line of lab products that we hope to launch this fall. But the small market has been a concern. I welcome anyone's input on the matter.
    My thoughts are that would be a great idea. On the other hand, due to the price, with a dwindeling economy the market for these products is at best likely going to shrink unless the cost comes down.
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,585

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    KEN, that's exactly what my concern is... it seems that the more books that get published, the higher the instruments get...(no offense MB, you weren't in that group and I'm very glad to hear that you got your book finished).

    Not that any of the instruments are not of top quality... they just carry such a high price because there are so few sold... the producers have to take into account that they need this product to produce x-amount of funds in order to even offer it, then they figure the number of units that they project to sell, and the price ends up coming somewhere in between...

    There are many parts and supplies that one could use and thus need when working with the Schley instrument, and the price of all combined is quite high...

    The Latshaw is much more affordable, but even with its more simple design and none of the accessories, the price still made a great leap this past winter with the launch of the new model... from around 800 to around 1,200... I have no intentions of getting into the manufactures market, but a few more competitors may actually benefit this market some by working the prices down to a more reachable amount for more bee keepers, thus selling more of the product and having more of a market to work with...

    Just my opinion...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    What are the commercial sources for drone sperm used in Instrumental Insemination?

    Or, do you have to do it all yourself?

    Mr. Bush made the point that nature provides for diversity.

    Perhaps if there are many commercial sources of drone sperm, you could make the argument that II can provide for a far greater diversity than nature can.

    I would be interested in drone sperm for non-II reasons, for example.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    457

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    One of my brothers is a Mechanical Engineer and another is a screw machine operator. If I had one of these in my hands or good, readable plans for one, it might be possible for my brothers to figure out how to make some more affordable.

    I just don't have anything to show them.

    Maybe I'll buy one and see what they could do.

    Pugs

  12. #12
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    Feb 2010
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Remember the old Emco Compact 5? I still got one. But, I haven't machined anything in a while.

    While you might be able to duplicate the functions of the apparatus with an alternative design, you'd still need some pretty good optics.

    I wonder if anyone has been able to use a pipettor w/ disposable tips to inseminate queens?

    Like an Eppendorf, 0.2 to 2.5 uL?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Gilmer,TX USA
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    1,830

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Mr Latshaw sent me some plans for one...they are simple. I was going to have a buddy work on it for me it just has not worked out.
    mike
    Please check out the new kingfisherapiaries.com!
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eatonville WA USA
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    169

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    In the Nov 1990 issue of american bee journal there is an article disscusing the Laidlaw- Goss Queen Bee Pre-set Artifical Insemination Instrument. the article covers where to get the parts to how to build the device. I think back issues of ABJ go for $2.50

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Sacramento,California,USA
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    3,675

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/pdf/...nation_ABJ.pdf

    This is link to PDF of the Laidlaw-Goss instrument that was published in the ABJ and is the instrument that Sue Cobey uses and promotes. This is the instructions to make it.
    “When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world.” – John Muir

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Frederick County, Maryland, USA
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    415

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    This topic was brought up in another forum...
    Here's the link:

    http://vshbreeders.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=89

    Adam Finkelstein
    www.vpqueenbees.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,585

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    WLC, I have seen a student get creative and use a vial stand, pen tip, small paper clip, forcept, and an Eppendorf pipette. Lol. His McGiver rig worked, but of course was haphazard and looked like something that the Chinese kid on the Goonies would make. Lol.

    Pugs, I would be interested to see what you guys could come up with...

    Magnification is not that big of an issue because you aren't having to get too small... most usb digital microscopes that have a range of 10x-150x will work well and are affordable and help the user to learn from their mistakes by being able to record and replay.

  18. #18
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    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    "His McGiver rig worked, but of course was haphazard..."

    Well, it confirms something that I've suspected all along: the Instrumental Insemination rigs are overdesigned.

    I think that you could easily put together your own apparatus in the lab that performs the same functions as the store bought unit.

    I've also noted that in the II apparatus, that the same sperm reservoir tip would get used between inseminating queens. So if the first queen is contaminated with a pathogen, the rest of the queens down the line get contaminated too.

    I think that using a seperate queen/ventral holder for each queen, seperate tip for each insemination, and making sure that each queen insemination uses sterile equipment (you'd have to sterilize the forceps as well) would be a better way to do it.

    While you can't sterilize the sperm source, you could at least make sure that your technique isn't the source of the problem.

    By the way, I think that a reworked microscope, with an adjustable stage slide holder, could do the job. You'd need to replace the body tube w/ the pipettor and move the queen holder around with the focus and slide adjustment knobs.

    Let's see if 'Macgyver' can get it to work.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    457

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Thanks for the links. Some of the scans aren't too good. And I wish the pictures were clearer. I'll have to see what my brothers can do with them.

    Pugs

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    dallas, tx, usa
    Posts
    517

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher Apiaries View Post
    Mr Latshaw sent me some plans for one...they are simple. I was going to have a buddy work on it for me it just has not worked out.
    mike
    AI is not that simple...Read Laidlaws book?
    Do you fully understand bee genetics? Piece of cake? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csjy020fpyI

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