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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Clifford Township, PA
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    2,082

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    .....If you put your name and address on the label you are implying that it is your honey not someone else's. If yours is all gone and you then get a customer that whats more the temptation is to supply them with someone else's... with your label or theirs???
    It implies no such thing. A name and address denotes the name and location of the seller. Period.

    If a label goes on to say that the honey is from your own hives and it is, in fact, from someone elses, then that is a false statement. If not, all the label is stating (not implying,) is that honey is being sold by the person/firm listed on the label. There is nothing being implied.

    Wayne

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Orange, Florida, USA
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Here in Florida there is a push to allow small timers to bottle under the "Cottage Industry" law for food handling. All the labling is the same as with the larger packers but you must also include something along the line of "Bottled under the Cottage Industry Guidelines". You don't need a food handling licence or certified kitchen but can only sell up to $15,000.00 worth of honey a year. The sales have to be retail, direct to the consumer and not bulk to a store. This will allow direct retail sales at farmer markets and flea markets for bee keepers.
    I think it was Nancy Gentry who pushed to get the Florida Honey Standard law passed. I met her once and boy is she a ball of fire, really knows her stuff. She worked with the Florida Dept of Agriculture to define what honey really is, the source and moisture content are two of the main points which are in the bill. The bill was aimed at the adulterated honey that was imported from China a few years ago.
    I'm in the same boat as Nabber and sell maybe 4-5 cases of pint or quart mason jars to friends. I seem to run out of honey to sell every spring right around time for my first extraction.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Clifford Township, PA
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    2,082

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Maybe if you didn't fly under the radar you would learn these things too.
    Good advice. A local store here was ordered to remove honey from their shelves that was produced "under the radar." At least here in Maine, flying above the radar is no big deal.

    Taking bad advice can cost you time, money and good will. If you want to run a business, large or small, it's best to pay attention to the advice offered by those with actual experience in the trade.

    Wayne

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Orange, Florida, USA
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    I've been asked two or three times if I could sell my raw bottled honey to health food stores and local high end food stores. My answer has always been "no" just because of the licence and food handling requirments needed. Setting up a food handling kitchen, getting it inspected and licenced and then getting a food handling certificate for myself just doesn't make any sense for the little honey I produce. My market so far is friends and neighbors with about half given away. It's a hobby that pays for itself on a good year, not a business. I take my hat and veil off to anybody who can make a living with bees, it has to be hard work.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,084

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Just tell the customer what size jar they are buying.
    I hope yoiu aren't planning on being a Lawyer, because that is really bad advice. Give away honey in whatever size jar you want. But, as soon as you start selling honey, you will find that it MUST be sold by weight, not by volume.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifford Township, PA
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    2,082

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Speaking of bad advice, last weekend, a local agricultural chain store had one of their occasional events where local folk can sell their chickens, small animals, garden produce, etc. I was there to sell my excess rabbits and was looking at the critters other folks brought. I heard a bit of conversation that went along these lines:

    "I was thinking of bringing preserves to sell but I heard that it required a license."

    "Oh no. I sell mine all the time. What you do is say you are selling the jar. Everything inside it is free. Anyone can sell jars without a license."

    "Oh, that's a great idea!"

    I guess it's as good an idea as some we've seen offered .There's no shortage of "experts," online or off, offering free expert advice and worth every penny.

    Wayne

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,084

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Is that what is known as a shell game? That's the nuttiest thing I have heard in the last cpl hours.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Finger Lakes, NY
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I would leave the weight off unless you are going to measure
    You measure it by filling it. 1 lb jars hold 1 lb of honey. Weight is required on the label in the bottom 1/3.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,020

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    You buy honey jars, fill to the proper level and apply the label w/ the corresponding weight on it. Calibrated scales aren't necassary.
    Where is the proper level? If the jar is the mode of measurement than telling the customer what size jar he is buying is the same thing. Putting a weight on a package and having no way to verify it (through documentation) is bogus and in the real world not acceptable.

    Documentation ... read Honeyshack's post. He about covered it. It is all about traceability and a possible need for recall. So Mark, are you a big boy or just trying to act like you are?

    Some people pick out a name and type up business cards and think that meets the requirement for owing a business. Then they go one step further and paste on a label with all the supposed "requirements" and think they are golden. Long before you get to the point where you are selling to Walmart you will have changed your labels 100 times.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,084

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Where is the proper level? Putting a weight on a package and having no way to verify it (through documentation) is bogus and in the real world not acceptable.

    So Mark, are you a big boy or just trying to act like you are?

    Long before you get to the point where you are selling to Walmart you will have changed your labels 100 times.
    Proper level? I guess if you have to ask, you have never filled and weighed jars of honey. after bottling hundreds of thousands of pounds of honey, the amount of honey in my jars have never been called into question.

    Am I a big boy or just trying to act like one? I don't know what you are driving at. What do you consider a "big boy" and what does that have to do w/ anything? 28,000 lbs bottled and sold last year.

    WalMart? Who wants to sell to WalMart? Honey sold at WalMart is probably like everything else sold at WalMart, Chinese.

    Besides, once one has settled on their label, why would there be any need to change it? Again, you are out of your element.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    I'm simple minded (my wife tells me so), so...

    Joe from Joe's Grocery, Juice, and Turnips Store sees some of my honey sitting on a shelf at my house. He tells me he would like to buy two cases to sell at his store. I sell him the two cases at my regular retail price with my regular homemade label on it. He carries the honey to his store and sells it to the public. This new customer will help buy up my couple of hundred gallons of honey that my bees produce. The customers are happy, Joe's happy, I'm happy. Then...

    A health official comes to inspect his store and sees the honey. Will there be an issue?

    A tax official comes to inspect...rinse, repeat. ???

    Ed

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fort Myers, Florida, USA
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeboy01 View Post
    I've been asked two or three times if I could sell my raw bottled honey to health food stores and local high end food stores. My answer has always been "no" just because of the licence and food handling requirments needed. Setting up a food handling kitchen, getting it inspected and licenced and then getting a food handling certificate for myself just doesn't make any sense for the little honey I produce.
    Beeboy, from the way I understand it from one of my mentors, all you need is access to a commercial kitchen (in other words, a restaurant). Your health inspector comes in, sees you bottle and gives you a certificate, then you're good to go. I already have a restaurant lined up to bottle in, just so I can be on the right side of our bottling laws. If you do get that big, befriend a local restaurant owner!
    I started out as an opportunistic beekeeper. Now the bees keep me...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    1,894

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    If anyone has ever had the FDA, Dept. of Ag., Bureau of Weights and Measures, IRS, State Department of Revenue, State health officials, or local health department give you a fine, or have you pull honey off of the shelves, please post about it under this thread. How about some real life experiences rather than speculation?

    Anybody?

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    10,020

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Intheswamp View Post
    A health official comes to inspect his store and sees the honey. Will there be an issue?

    A tax official comes to inspect...rinse, repeat. ???

    Ed
    I would doubt health officials will give jars of honey a second thought. They are involved in certification and show up when there is a problem at the consumer end that gets traced back to the supplier.

    Tax officials don't look at your honey they look at your books. If you drive a beamer and have a garage full of toys and don't show the income to support your purchases you raise a flag for them to come and visit. If you have a "business" and only show expenses but little income that gets them excited too.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Intheswamp View Post

    A health official comes to inspect his store and sees the honey. Will there be an issue?

    A tax official comes to inspect...rinse, repeat. ???

    Ed
    Could be. I don't know the rules and regs where you live. But, the Store Owner should know what he can and cannot sell. and, if it goes down that way, what have you lost? The honey would be pulled from the shelf until Rules and Regs have been met. You wouldn't have done anything wrong. imo. The Store Owner's the one who should have known better.

    Call the Regulatory Agency in your State and ask them. If compliance isn't worth the cost, don't sell your honey that way.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I would doubt health officials will give jars of honey a second thought. They are involved in certification and show up when there is a problem at the consumer end that gets traced back to the supplier.
    WRONG.

    Health Inspectors make visits to Markets to see if food is being handled properly. As do other Ag&Mkts employees who check weights, measures and proper labeling.

    Case in point, as per Nabbers request. At one time I sold honeybears w/out labels to a few stores. Because I couldn't find a label that fit the bear to my liking. Ag&Mkts guy told the store they couldn't sell them that way. That the bears had to have a Label w/ Name, address, Product Name and weight. So the bears got pulled. No fine.

    Another case was when a customer kept the 1/2 gallon jugs of honey in his meat locker, for some reason, and juces from the packaged meat dripped down onto the jugs of honey. He had to throw them out. No fine, as far as I know.

    Neither case warranted a fine against me. No notice from the Inspectors. No visit either.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    WRONG.

    Neither case warranted a fine against me. No notice from the Inspectors. No visit either.
    According to your own words you were in violation by selling honey that was unlabeled which is kinda the point that I am trying to get across. Health inspectors are not worried about the little back yard bee keeper.
    I may be at the honey booth at the New York State Fair. Are you going to be there? We can check out how strict they are with the rules at a major state function with lots of food items.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    1,894

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    I guess it really depends on wether you are selling to a legit supermarket or out of your front yard/corner lot from a farm stand. If to a super market, follow the national food labeling guidelines and you should be OK. Reference this page from the National Honey Board for labeling requirements. http://www.honey.com/nhb/industry/labeling-information/ (I assume the NHB knows what they are talking about).

    Besides the labeling issue, if you are selling through a legit outlet, you should probably be using a certified commissary or commercial kitchen while bottling your honey, or build a locally certified honey extraction/bottling facility yourself. But that is were local regulations come in to play, and this will vary greatly from state to state. Farmer's markets typically go strictly by local heatlh ordinances (City or County), so anything goes there.

    Taxes have nothing to do with labeling reqiurements. If you sell honey and make a profit, Uncle Sams says that you must report it. Try to claim depreciation on equipment or subtract expenses to show little or no profit? - better be sure Uncle Sam doesnt consider your business to be a hobby. Better be sure that you know the difference between a business and a hobby.

    As for flying under the radar, each person must decide for themselves. Obvioulsy if you are selling 1000 pounds of honey you are not below the radar. I sell less than 100 pounds of honey to friends, family, and coworkers - BFD (incidently, my sister runs a pharmacy in a small Missouri town and sells my un-labeled honey to customers from a display on the counter. I am probably breaking interstate commerces laws by transporting un-labeled honey across state lines).

  19. #39
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Interesting, no mention of grade.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifford Township, PA
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    2,082

    Default Re: State Honey Label Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I would doubt health officials will give jars of honey a second thought.
    Wrong. Bad advice.

    A local store was ordered to pull honey from their shelves that was produced by a local beekeeper "flying under the radar." The beekeeper probably listened to someone with no experience and even less knowledge of the subject. He learned the hard way.

    Wayne

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