What are my Russians building?

[Kazzandra]

So I managed a brood check of my third brood box. Either I don't have a queen or she hasn't figured out that this is a brood box (last week it was honey stores-- I moved four of those up and checkerboarded both supers with foundationless with small cell starter strips).
So, in summation:
1) It's been a week since I gave them this brood box, so I would expect to see some larva. I suck at finding eggs, but maybe you'll see some?
2) I see what appears to be swarm cells? Are some of these capped?
3) When should I go check brood box two if I checked this one yesterday?
4) What on earth should I expect and what actions can I take?

Anyway, here's some pictures. Clickable thumbnails for larger pics:

The one larva I saw...


They're building queen cells as they go along? Are those capped?



Here is the one piece of plastic that i put in this box to help me see brood. A queen cell here, too?



Any eggs?

[fish_stix]

1st pic: can't tell if it's drone or queen larva
2nd pic: queen cups, not cells, yet. Your Russians will build thousands of cups, get used to it! Not capped, they're open on the bottom.
3rd pic: another cup; see above.
4th pic: no eggs here; they're storing nectar on this frame.
On to your Photobucket pics: pic 53: queen cup, open on bottom.
pics 50-54, 72: capped worker brood.
pics 67, 71: eggs, tiny "grain of rice" in the bottom of the cell.
pics 6, 7, 8: drone brood.

May we answer any other queries?

[Kazzandra]

Ah-- thanks so much, fish stix! I get so confused with queen-building terminology. Queen cups-- good to know.

Those eggs in pics 67 and 71 have now emerged. :< This was the first (and last!) time I was able to see eggs in the field. It doesn't help my hives are several feet in the shade and it's always so dark when I inspect. I'm wary of walking a frame out into the sun and checking for eggs, not only because of defensiveness, but what if the queen is on that frame and falls? EDIT: I guess this calls for a good smoking and a bee brush.

So the top 23 pictures in my album are from yesterday's inspection of brood box three. I see no eggs, capped drones, and one larva. If you were me, would you be itching to check out brood box two ASAP, and if so, when's the next time I can do so?

[spunky]

Thanks for posting those pics. I have a hive of Russian Hybrids from Kelly's, and they only build one or 2 queen cell cups per frame.

[valleyman]

kazzandra,
Welcome to the world of Russians, fishstix is right on in his descriptions. I didn't look at all the pictures as it hurts too much. It won't get any better for I would say 5-7 generations. Sorry!
Spunky,
My hybrids are nothing like the pure, but they are still more swarmy than say Itilians. They are still not really good producers, still gather on the bottom of the frames, are very, very nervous. and I think there are much better bees out there that are just as resistant and are much easier to keep.

[Kazzandra]

It's so odd-- they never built a single queen cup before this week. And they have easily 400 drones in there. Time to freeze a frame!
I know valleyman-- I don't mind them so much, though. I will enjoy the process of hybridizing for 5-7 generations until I get just the right bees!

So now-- a comparison of another hive from the same stock. They are my "light" hive-- light-coloured, lighter on bees, lighter on production. They are also in four supers. So they got the same switcheroo pulled the day before my dark hive. And this is what they had the same day that I took those other pictures on their new starter strips:

Still never saw a queen cup in there, either.

I will suit up and go check out brood box 2 and 1 tomorrow, trying not to use but a puff of smoke a box. I will take my extra inner covers to use to cover whoever I'm not working. If I find I truly am queenless and there are no eggs or queen cells, I'll see if I can't find some eggs in my other hive to donate (the light hive). I'll try to get more pics.

[fish_stix]

Don't get all worked up yet! Your queen may have just temporarily stopped laying because of a local dearth. Russians are very good at shutting down quickly once a flow slows down. The on again/off again brood cycling used to drive me nuts when I was owned by the Russians. Wasted tremendous blocks of time looking for queens before I figured that one out. And queen cells in progress with larva are not a certain indication of impending queenlessness either; they build cells frequently all the way to being capped and then tear them down. I would just assume that they still have a queen until other indications appear.

[spunky]

kazzandra,
Welcome to the world of Russians, fishstix is right on in his descriptions. I didn't look at all the pictures as it hurts too much. It won't get any better for I would say 5-7 generations. Sorry!
Spunky,
My hybrids are nothing like the pure, but they are still more swarmy than say Itilians. They are still not really good producers, still gather on the bottom of the frames, are very, very nervous. and I think there are much better bees out there that are just as resistant and are much easier to keep.

I have had a hive of some "purer " Russian bees 4yrs ago. They propolized everything, stung me no matter what I did in the hive, and never made much honey. I like these bees this year from Walter T's much better; they are better comb builders, less runny , still back fill the brood nest too much though. I didnt take a chance and split them and gave them a fully mated Carni queen and the new split accepted her

[valleyman]

I didnt take a chance and split them and gave them a fully mated Carni queen and the new split accepted her

In my humble opinion you did the right thing. Especially if your Carni queen came from good stock.

[Kazzandra]

Thanks, fish stix! Well, I did find other signs-- just had to go down another box!

So my bees were trying to tell me something with this queen cups! I have eight or nine emergency queen cells-- capped. One may have emerged.


So what do y'all suggest? Is there a virgin on/waiting for a mating flight? (They have easily 500 drones to choose from!) Do I have time to let one of those queens mate and return for all build-up? Try to introduced a new Russian queen from my supplier and pull that frame into a nuc with some honey and emptied frames?

Sigh-- and I had to check them in the rain (don't worry-- I had tree cover). After I saw no brood in box three (last Thursday) I wanted to wait at least a few days before I busted back in. And I waited, and it rained, and it rained, and I needed to check!!! So I suited up and waded through an angry crowed of one hundred-- they did NOT like me messing with that frame!! I wonder if the virgin was on that frame or near it waiting for weather appropriate for a mating flight?! Who blames them for being mad, then! That's their entire future, as far as they know! No wonder they've been so mean. But everyone keeps telling me Russians are so mean, they make queen cells-- well, mine were no so mean, nor did they make queen cells, until their queen started failing! I feel so imperceptive and like I've been prejudiced against my own bees!

I guess I should have known-- the old queen had been laying pretty much drones for two weeks. There's just a frame or two of brood left. The math makes me think I had nothing to do with her loss-- they may have offed her for running out of sperm. Well, there's my varroa control-- sheesh. No wonder I had a mite count of 1.

No laying workers (yet), and I will be checking my other hive tomorrow and pulling some brood from my (LOL) weak hive for my strong hive.

Click the picture to see a larger one:

Here I suspect that a virgin has emerged.



The last of my brood. This is why I suspect the time frame I do.


Another top view of the same potentially emerged queen cell.


And the other side of the frame.

[Kazzandra]

Bump.
Called Mr. Revis. Going to get my queen in a few days! Got him first time! He's awesome! No charge for it, either!
I might be sticking with Russians after all.

[fish_stix]

Kazzandra; I recommend you introduce the new queen in a newly made up nuc with positively, absolutely no queen cells. Let the nuc sit for a couple hours queenless and then introduce the new queen in the cage; pull the candy cork and let the bees release her. Get the new queen settled in for a couple of weeks then kill the queen they're making now and do a newspaper combine with the nuc and the old hive. It's often very difficult to find and cut all the cells they've built and if you miss just one cell your new queen will be killed.

[Kazzandra]

Okay. That makes good sense.

This also prevents a virgin from returning mated and killing the newly introduced queen, right?

If a virgin has left for a mating flight, and returns, and finds a laying queen there, will she enter and try to kill the queen? And how will she know her hive? From scent or location? Should I make sure the nuc is more than several feet away from the old hive's position or can it be right next to it?

I know the answers are probably very simple, considering the existence of mating nucs, but I want to confirm-- for my purposes now, and because I am going to be buying a queen castle for this new queen to reside in. Also, how long do I leave them be without interruption from introduction of the queen (I'm specifically looking for answers from others who have requeened Russians,) and is it okay to work other hives right next to them?

Thanks, thanks, thanks for all the help!