"Leave the bees enough honey..."

[Mosherd1]

So we have all heard this a million times. I have always questioned the practicality behind this statement. If we are wintering in double deeps and supering in mediums or shallows then we really are not "leaving the bees enough honey." In reality we need to pull supers early enough before the end of the flow so the bees can add stores to the 2nd brood chamber. The alternative is to leave an extra super of honey on the hives. It has just always seemed strange phrasing to me at extracting time when it is not like we can take medium frames and just pop them into the deep. Once it is in a medium frame we cannot just leave it for them unless we are leaving a super on. Maybe over my 10 years of doing this and hearing this statement I have been missing something. Does my logic make sense or am I the only one who sees this?

[Solomon Parker]

Not everyone uses differing size of boxes, nor is there much sense in doing so. If you have all the same size boxes then you can provide honey from one to the other with no problems. Also, what's the hang up with only wintering in two deeps? I often winter in five deeps, the upper two being mostly empty.

Even though my massive winter hives have been a point of consternation to the forum, I sincerely stand by my assertion that having more than one size of box and frame is a huge inconvenience. I have used all deeps for eight years now and love it. However, I'm thinking of switching to all mediums.

[AR Beekeeper]

Probably most people used all deep frames and would remove frames from all boxes to extract and also they produced comb honey. The comb honey producers would constrict the brood nest so all of the nectar was stored above. They would then feed or add frames of honey to the colonies.

I was taught that at the beginning of the nectar flow, when supers were added, to put the queen in the bottom deep with all of the frames of open brood. Then add an excluder, the 2nd deep brood box with sealed brood and then the honey supers. When the sealed brood emerged the bees filled the cells with nectar and the box became the colony food chamber. After the food chamber is filled the bees fill the surplus honey supers and that is what I get. I never remove the honey in the food chamber or in the brood chamber. It is easy to tell how much food the colony has by hefting or inspecting the food chamber.

[Mosherd1]

I agree, it would make life easier to have all one size box. Unfortunately in years past I have treated some deep frames with Apistan. I could mark the frames from previous years and then just start to rotate them out but that would take many years to complete. Or an alternative could be to mark the "new" deep frames and just extract from them.

[Solomon Parker]

I was taught...

Sounds like a method to limit the bees capabilities and tempt things like swarming. Have you tried unlimited broodnest? I leave the bottom three deeps for the bees and allow them to do whatever they want (except opening up the broodnest at key times). Toward the middle of the summer when it stops raining (like now) they naturally reduce the broodnest size to just a couple of frames thereby conserving stores. This last winter, I had most of my hives come through with five deep frames of honey and plenty of pollen. No need for spring feeding.

[Solomon Parker]

Unfortunately in years past I have treated some deep frames with Apistan.

Are you going treatment free?

[Acebird]

Beekeeping practices are different in different areas. You can even go as far as saying beekeeping practices vary between beekeepers in the same area. I don't see how the statement "leave bees enough honey..." is not a good practice unless you plan on disposing of the bees.

Whether you have the same equipment or not (I like the idea) you can still leave bees enough honey.

[lazy shooter]

An old pal of mine used to say, when in a bad deal, "I don't want any cheese, I just want out of the trap." That's where I am with bees. I don't want any honey, I am just hoping that by feeding my bees until the winter weather, or until it rains a bunch, I can maybe have honey next year.

[arthurw]

I never understood the concept of taking too much honey and then paying to feed the bees. Yeah, you can make a few bucks on the increase in value of honey to sugar, but what is all your extra labor worth? and it's all just to feed an inferior product to the workers who are making it all possible for you. I settle for less honey and healthier (and happier, I hope) bees. When dealing with a living system you need to take the wholistic view!

[Mtn. Bee]

I have used all deeps for eight years now and love it. However, I'm thinking of switching to all mediums.

Have you ever thought about splitting the difference and going with all 7-5/8" boxes?
The best of both worlds (honey super/brood box in one) !

[Solomon Parker]

It crossed my mind, but they aren't nearly as common. I don't even think I've ever seen one in person before. Mann Lake PF series frames are only available in deep and medium.

[c10250]

I pull my supers after the summer flow. Weigh my hive, and then I either super or not for the Goldenrod flow. If my hive is 130 lbs or more, I'll throw a super on for the GR flow, otherwise, I'll leave it for the bees.

[Mtn. Bee]

Very common in the west!
I inherited quite a few when I bought out other Beeks.
Western Bee, Mann Lk., Browning Cut Stock, etc. carry them in there catalogs.
I am seriously thinking about what Michael Bush did cutting down all his equip. to meds., but instead cut my down to 10 frame 7- 5/8".
If I go through with it, I will cut down my Deep Pierco foundation to fit the 7-5/8" boxes as well.
Just think about how nice it would be with one size fits all, instead of wasting time trying to think about and load all the different sized equip. on the truck for the outyards!
It is very frustrating at times!
Mtn. Bee

[kwest]

well i went to all mediums and i absolutly love it. it makes life easier

[Michael Bush]

>it is not like we can take medium frames and just pop them into the deep.

That's why I went to all mediums...

But people in areas like Tennessee an North Carolina seem to overwinter in a deep and a shallow and do very well. Yes you can leave a super. But odds are the queen will cut back in the fall and especially if you've pulled the empties off, they will backfill and push the queen down with honey in the brood box.

[ChickenChaser]

But people in areas like Tennessee an North Carolina seem to overwinter in a deep and a shallow and do very well.

I missed that somewhere...the shallow part. I may have unintentionally set myself up to do that. Thanks, Mr. B, for the mention.

CC