Thoughts on Perma Comb anybody

[naturaledge]

Is anybody having good luck with perma comb

[Michael Bush]

Bullseye Bill is a fan (haven't heard from him lately). I'm a fan. Since it started only being available in lots of 1,000 popularity has waned...

[naturaledge]

I have some but they don't seem to like them , can they be used for brood and honey , .I was able to buy 20 at a time .

[Michael Bush]

I waxed most of mine. Instant acceptance. What I didn't is less appealing to the bees at first, but once they use it it's just drawn comb. The moths can't do more than put a few webs on the surface, which a stiff brush will remove mostly. They warp some, so you have to "crown" them, but I've always done that with lumber so it's nothing new...

[naturaledge]

Hello Michael do you use them for brood and honey . Off to sweat I will check later . Thank you

[pistolero56]

Id like to buy some anyone know where to?

[AstroBee]

I have 20 frames in my inventory. I use it mostly for honey, but have used it for brood too. I believe that many were using a table saw to trim off the nubs on the bottom, which when gone makes it much easier to scrape smooth. Overall, I think its good, but wouldn't pay too much over standard frame prices for it, and yes the 1000 frame order is a show-stopper for most. I believe that the top bars are slightly longer than standard, which makes them sit tightly in my boxes - not too big of a deal, but some start to bow in the middle.

[johnpfaff]

Haven't used permacomb but am a super cell enthusiest. Had nucs this year that would not draw comb on plastic foundation and welded / drew nuc frames to grotesque porportions. Replaced wooden frames gradually and cured all my problems. My new hives are now three deep and full.

[kenr]

It's a good but flawed product them tabs on the bottom are a nonstarter even with them on it leaves too much beespace.I cut off the tabs and added 1/2in wood on bottom.And when full of honey they are heavy.But as Mr Bush says forget about moth damage not much that they can do.

[Michael Bush]

>do you use them for brood and honey .

Yes.

>It's a good but flawed product them tabs on the bottom are a nonstarter even with them on it leaves too much beespace.

This was done on purpose so the bees could raise drones. Any plastic frame will have connections between the boxes no matter how accurate the beespace because of the thin top bars. This has been known for some time:

“…that very practical Canadian bee-keeper, J.B. Hall, showed me his thick top-bars, and told me that they prevented the building up of so much burr-comb between the top-bars and the sections…and I am very glad that at the present day it can be dispensed with by having top-bars 1-1/8 inch wide and 7/8 inch thick, with a space of 1/4 inch between top-bar and section. Not that there is an entire absence of burr-combs, but near enough to it so that one can get along much more comfortably than with the slat honey-board. At any rate there is no longer the killing of bees that there was every day the dauby honey-board was replaced.”--C.C. Miller, Fifty Years Among the Bees.

“Q. Do you believe that a half-inch thick brood-frame top-bar will tend to prevent the bees building burr-comb on such frames, as well as the three-quarter inch top-bar? Which kind do you use?
A. I do not believe that the one-half inch will prevent burr-combs quite as well as the three-quarter. Mine are seven-eighths.”--C.C. Miller, A Thousand Answers to Beekeeping Questions

>I cut off the tabs and added 1/2in wood on bottom.

The wood will help as that thickens the non cell space between one and the other. But to really eliminate burr between boxes you need at least 7/8" of wood.

>And when full of honey they are heavy.

Anything FULL is heavy, but they are even heavy empty...

[kenr]

Michael was this product made for honey or brood production or both?If for brood yes I can see where the tabs have their place.But to use permacomb in honey production the tabs stink on ice!But don't get me wrong in your honey supers with the tabs off this is a great product.

[Michael Bush]

>Michael was this product made for honey or brood production or both?

Both.

>If for brood yes I can see where the tabs have their place.But to use permacomb in honey production the tabs stink on ice!

I cut some off to see if I liked it better. They are easier to scrape down to the plastic with the tabs gone, and I like it better with them gone, but I'm too lazy to cut them all off. I did run a bunch through a table saw with a plywood blade to cut the ones I did.

[beepop]

Michael,
How and what do you use to wax the frames.

[Michael Bush]

It's a lot of work and a lot of mess but was worth it to me. I heated the frames in my outdoor oven to 200 F then dipped them in beeswax that was about 212 F (in a double boiler turkey roaster) and then shook out the wax and then slammed them on my outside table and then stacked them upside down on the frame rest of an empty box. They were totally coated taking the cell size down to 4.9mm or 4.8mm and giving instant acceptance. I was going for the 4.9mm but the acceptance was a wonderful side benefit.

[Walt McBride]

The inventor of Perma Comb, Dr. Herbert Drapkin had asked me to sample his plastic comb from time to time, as we were members of the same bee association.
His concept of plastic comb has merit if only the bees will readily acept it.
I found it to be 20 percent heaver than wood/wax, making it an issue when transporting many supers and handling and bees not acepting it easly at first. Also having too much invested in w/wax at that date to switch.
He was also developing an extractor that would operate at high RPM, eliminating the need of uncapping the Perma Comb. I do not know how that turned out.
After he sold the rights to "PC" he had me try several supers of a new forumula he was working on to entice the bees to the plastic comb. I found it not acceptable to my operation and still use wood frame with wired wax foundation.
Walt