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Thread: Foundationless!

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    dadeville, alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,163

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Joseph, what sort of extractor do you use?? TED

  2. #22

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Nico108,

    I simply cut a 3/4" to 1" strip of foundation and fold it in half lengthwise and jam it into the upper groove of my frames and it works great. The length is about a 6" long strip - the foundation being pre-cut to scale for medium frames.
    Jim Andersen
    Desert Viking Ranch

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,213

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    I would use the "jumbo craft sticks" with no wax and glue them into the groove. If you want to use wax starter strips, you can, but they have to be anchored well as Joseph pointed out or they will fall when the bees hang on them. When I used wax strips I always waxed them into the groove with melted wax from a wax tube fastener.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  4. #24

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    I took a picture of my description as I realized it's easier to see than describe. I had a lot of extra wired foundation so I essentially replicated a popsicle stick with the foundation strips. By wedging them in the upper groove there is enough to start comb, but not enough for them to hang off of and pull it down.

    Foundation Starter.jpg
    Jim Andersen
    Desert Viking Ranch

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,385

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Ted,
    My extractor is a small two-frame SS basket inside a SS tank. I got it second hand at a barn auction -- I'm not sure but I think it originated from Dadant. It is operated by a hand crank, but I haven't had the time to use it for several years now, so the little honey I harvest I either crush and strain or just leave in the comb (chunk comb honey). I have a touch of O.C.D. that helps to keep me away from the sticky of honey. Raising queens and nucs has become my beekeeping, modus operandi.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Rifle, Colorado
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Yesterday I moved 4 frames of necter and capped honey to the upper deep between frames being drawn. I then placed 1 frame with popsicle sticks for starters between 2 framemes of capped brood. Then I placed 1 with wax starter between the next capped frames. I melted wax into the groove on 1 frame let it cool and repeated until I have a nice little ridge the length of the frame and installed it likewise. The 4th frame I just melted waxonto the surface of an ungrooved frame and installed it. I'll let you know in a week as to which they like best.
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    942

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Foundationless works faster and fine however it isn't a bad idea to have foundation every so often. They will occaisionally build east / west instead of north / south which can end up a big mess if you do not catch it in time.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Rifle, Colorado
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    They will occaisionally build east / west instead of north / south which can end up a big mess if you do not catch it in time.
    My hives are faceing east and west maybe that's why the burr comb (Comb) is being built east and west crossways over the tops of my frames. I guess I should turn my hives so the front door is faceing south.
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Cashmere, WA, USA
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    If you're lazy like me forget the popsicle sticks, nailing, gluing, waxing and whatnot. Just break the wedge out of the top bar and you're good to go. They'll fill the frame from the shelf that results and you get a good bond to the topbar.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    942

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Kellys has a new frame with a built in wedge that you can wax and the girls seem to take to it quickly.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,213

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    >Just break the wedge out of the top bar and you're good to go.

    I'd turn the wedge and glue it back in... otherwise the edge isn't in the center.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Rifle, Colorado
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Ok! 1 week later; Here is the update from the hive I put the frames in. The popsicle stick frame has 3 sticks in it with about a 1/4" space between, They've drawn 3 seperate combs about a 3rd of the frame deep. The next frame has wax starter folded over and put in the grove I also melted it in with a propane torch leaving about a 1/4" ridge the length of the frame, This frame is full, about 3/4 of which is worker comb and the rest drone come (real easy to see the difference when they're together). The 3rd frame is also wax that I melted in layers until there was a nice little rige the length of the frame it also has great results and is almost full but is more work than the the 2nd frame. The
    4th frame I just melted wax onto with no groove is very slow about 1/3 drawn and mostly drone comb.
    So my thoughts are leaning towards going with frames with a piece of foundation folded over and melted into the frame for security. Thanks for all of the replies to this thread!
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Quote Originally Posted by K.E.N. View Post
    .
    So my thoughts are leaning towards going with frames with a piece of foundation folded over and melted into the frame for security. Thanks for all of the replies to this thread!
    Glad that it is working out for you. I am doing something similar. I use a 3/4 inch wide strip of foundation attached to the groove in the top bar by dripping wax from a candle. Seems to be working for me.
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

  14. #34

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Quote Originally Posted by K.E.N. View Post
    The next frame has wax starter folded over and put in the grove I also melted it in with a propane torch leaving about a 1/4" ridge the length of the frame
    To help make your foundation last even longer, just cut strips the width of the foundation, rather than the entire length, and center that piece in your grooves. I am sold on this method as well.
    Jim Andersen
    Desert Viking Ranch

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,213

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Foundation will work for a starter, I've done a lot of it, but wood is more durable and easier to do.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Appling, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    OK,
    I am trying the foundationless suggestions in my hive. They have a deep with plastic drawn out. I added a medium with 2 frames of plastic for guides and 8 frames foundationless. they have paint sticks cut in 1/3 lenghth wise glued in top and bottom groove full width. i sprayed the empty frames. After 1 week, there is nothing drawn on anything but slight bit on 1 of the plastic foundation filled wood frames. seems like alot of bees in there, the medium is placed under the full deep to encourage moving down. How long should i wait before just putting foundation back in? I would really like to go foundationless. I am also feeding 1:1 syrup. Any thoughts please!
    mike

  17. #37

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Did you coat the wooden paint stick guides with beeswax?
    Jim Andersen
    Desert Viking Ranch

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Appling, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    No, I read that it was not necessary. Michael Bush does not recommend i think. Do you? Maybe that is worth a try.
    Thanks
    mike

  19. #39
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Rifle, Colorado
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    I have the same problem with plastic the bees simply dont like it. Some is drawn nicely but most are not touched. I've even dilluted honey into syrup and sprayed it on and they just clean it up and go on their way. My thoughts are plastic sucks! I'm sticking with foundationless. I thought about the drone comb also and I dont think I'll mind the drones being around just in case I loose a queen and let them make their own. I'll need tthe drones around for mating.
    "How do you expect to get by in life if you're not precision!"

  20. #40
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Default Re: Foundationless!

    Has any one tried using a 1/4 inch dowel as a support instead of wire? I read that this can be done by drilling a hole in the top bar in the center and inserting the dowel. The bottom of the dowel could be nailed or stapled in place, to the bottom bar. It seems like a good idea but I haven't tried it.

    I think you are more likely to get nice worker comb drawn if you put one frame at a time in the center of the brood nest.

    Drone comb is more likely to be on the edge of the brood nest. It's not all bad if you slice some of it off (when capped brood) as a mite control.

    There was an early hive that would allow one to turn the frames upside down to get the bees to complete the frames attached all around.

    dickm

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