Is there such a thing as organic bee keeping

[lazy shooter]

Is it possible to raise bees and harvest honey without the use of pesticides? I am currrently feeding my bees, which is necessary due to our drought, and I don't mind treating the bees with anything that does not have a 'health hazard warning' on it. I want to stay away from chemicals that end in "ide."

Lazy

[sqkcrk]

No, to the title question.
Yes to the question of pesticide use.
Not all "ides" are BAD. Powdered sugar is a miticide, the way some folks use it. Even if it isn't labeled as such. Formic acid and oxolic acid are also.

Study and learn and chart your own course. It's good you asked.

[Acebird]

Definitely yes to the title question.
Certification of the honey might be more difficult.
Treating with pesticides is not organic bee keeping. If you ask someone that believes in treating they are first going to try to convince you that there is no such thing as organic bee keeping. Ask someone that is doing it and you will get the right answer.

[lazy shooter]

Acebird:

I am asking for a beekeeper that is using organic chemicals to raise and maintain bees to assure me this can be done. I've spent the last 50 years of my life in the oil field. I have seen enough environmental destruction (almost all of which was totally unintentional) to last me my remaining years. I want to have some happy bees that produce some chemical free honey that I can give to my friends. Bee keeping will be a labor of love to me, and I don't want to be on some critical path as to when and what harsh chemical to use next. Hell, I'm 72 and if it is not going to work to my ideals then I simply can buy honey.

Thanks to for you and Sqkcrk for your replies.

Lazy

[ArkansasBK]

You can control what your bees get at your hive location. You can't control what they pick up when foraging, unless you live in a very remote location with no neighbors within 3 miles or so.

[Dana]

Lazy, there are plenty of folks, including me, raising bees without chemicals. The only "chemical" I have ever used is some sugar to feed when the weather doesn't cooperate.

Here's one good place to start reading: http://bushfarms.com/bees.htm

[sqkcrk]

W/ as much respect as I can extend his way, Acebird has two hives and has been keeping bees a relatively short time. Not that I have a monopoly on truth or opinion. Just more experience and more hives and more book learnin' and a Degree. For what any of that means at all to anyone else.

For the, perhaps, definitive answer, check out Michael Bushs' web site as noted by Dana. Dean Stiglits, if I spelled thaty correctly, aka deknow is an excellent source also. He even has a book you might enjoy owning. "Beekeeping for Dummies", I believe?

How many do I have to sell before I get my own copy for free, Dean? heh,heh.

[deknow]

...you are now entitled to a free copy of "Beekeeping For Dummies". You will have to contact the author in order to collect...which is not me.

We wrote "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Beekeeping". I say we, because my wife and I wrote it together. This is widely available (Amazon has it for less than $10 these days), and is a complete treatment free approach.

...last name is spelled Stiglitz.

Mark, you are fired as my agent

deknow

[Dana]

Yay! A book for treatment free beekeeping. Thanks to you and your wife for writing it.

[lazy shooter]

In one quadrand from my bees, I have neighbors with gardens and peach trees with one mile of my bee hives (three hives or Rweaver's Americans). In the other three quadrants there is only one ranch house within three miles. For the most part, my bees will forage West Texas brush and a myriad of wild flowers in a norman spring.

Like Sqkcrk, I too have a degree, actually two degrees. The degrees are in Mathematics and Petroleum Engineering. In all my studies, I had one semester each of Botany and Biology. Hmmm, that would have been some 52 or 53 years ago. I am blessed with a top-crop son that studied and teaches biology and anatomy. His knowledge of life sciences is amazing to this old engineer. He is well versed in insects in general, but is not a specialist in bees. He will help me learn.

I am delighted to find there are people raising bees on my terms.

Thanks to all of you,

Lazy (Don)

[yamahawg]

We wrote "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Beekeeping". I say we, because my wife and I wrote it together. This is widely available (Amazon has it for less than $10 these days), and is a complete treatment free approach.


deknow

A very good book indeed! I own a copy myself!

[Charlie B]

Lazy,

You can join the Organic Beekeeping Yahoo Chat group run by Dee Lusby, (all are welcome) and discover that there is indeed a worldwide group of organic beekeepers out there that pretty much feel the same way you do. You can learn a lot from those folks.

I wish you well my friend

[sqkcrk]

...you are now entitled to a free copy of "Beekeeping For Dummies". You will have to contact the author in order to collect...which is not me.

...last name is spelled Stiglitz.

Mark, you are fired as my agent

deknow

Du'oh!! I shoulda checked. Maybe I better get a copy of yours so I get it right next time.

Lazy? Or Don?,
Checkout the Treatment Free Forum here on beesource.com. You might find something useful there too.

[Acebird]

For the, perhaps, definitive answer, check out Michael Bushs' web site as noted by Dana. Dean Stiglits, if I spelled thaty correctly, aka deknow is an excellent source also. He even has a book you might enjoy owning. "Beekeeping for Dummies", I believe?

Have you changed your tune?
Michael's book is free and available on his website. I don't know if he has a degree or not but do you really care? I think you will be quite satisfied with his procedures. Keep in mind his apiary is not yours. Just do what you can do.

[Scrapfe]

"Treatment free" beekeeping is not "organic" beekeeping, anymore than pigeons in the park are "organic" poultry. I agree with sqkcrk.

[deknow]

...and it's worth noting that when Penn State tested wax, bees, beebread, pollen, etc that the highest levels of pesticide was Fluvalinate and Coumaphos. So the worst of the contamination is coming from the beekeepers.

deknow

[Acebird]

"Treatment free" beekeeping is not "organic" beekeeping,

Give us your definition of both and then we can decide how close one is to the other. I think most people know that treating with commercial pesticides is not organic beekeeping.

[sqkcrk]

Even if the pesticides are organic?

deknow,
I believe that was even, or especially true, in untreated hives which were on foundationless comb. Check w/ Mary Anne Frazier to be sure.

[sqkcrk]

Have you changed your tune?

Just suggesting some reading materials so maybe he can make up his own mind.

Are you an organic beekeeper, Acebird?

[rwurster]

This is my first year of beekeeping and I have the same basic philosophy as you do as far as treatment free beekeeping goes (define organic, it is confusing.) I read about beekeeping for a year before I got my hives and I knew from the start that I was going to use foundationless frames and top entrances (run that by some beekeepers who have always used foundation and bottom entrances and see what kind of responses you get lol) My thoughts were that foundationless frames let your bees make their cells a 'natural' size which helps with mite control and the top entrance helping with ventilation with a screened bottom board etc. etc. I know that I personally don't want to use any sort of treatments on my hives (10 hives first year) but I also realize that there are times when one has to do so even if it means you will not be able to consume the honey they make. Here's my point, if you have educated yourself about bees and you know which path you want to follow, follow it. The people on this forum will give you decent advice most of the time but you must know that if you choose not to treat when necessary (I haven't treated for anything and don't plan on it unless it is absolutely vital to the health of the colony and my other hives) your hive will most likely weaken and die. You might also consider the risk that diseased bees can spread ailments to other bees and thus other managed/feral hives in your area. Whatever style of beekeeping you choose to do though is your choice and I would encourage you to follow it. Some people will troll you in a very nice way here but I would suggest thinking about what they say so you don't disregard some good advice.

By the way I have a BS in Mathematics and it hasn't helped we with beekeeping even fractionally when compared to the basic skills I learned in woodshop as I make all my own hardware