4.9mm comb

**chevydmax04** · 06-05-2011, 04:58 PM

What are your thoughts on going back to the way bee keeping was done 30 years ago. I lost 3 of my 4 hives over winter to CCD, and the fourth came close with a mild case of foul brood that looked to be just starting out.

I pulled 2 frames of clean brood, got the queen and moved it to all brand new 4.9mm foundation. I know, not supposed to do that, I got lucky, I just checked the hive it is clean and flourishing, and there are 1000's of bee's where 4-5 weeks ago there was maybe a 1000. The foundation I am using is brand new unused but is over 40 years old. The packing slip is from Sear's and Robuck and is dated May 1967. In doing my inspection today that hive is set to explode! I have never in all my 4 years of keeping bees seen that much brood in one hive. They have 15 of the 18 new frames fully drawn out and stuffed top to bottom, front and back and side to side with brood. I think I am doing everything the same as I have in the past but I have never had results like this. Wondering if the 4.9 has anything to do with it, now I just have to wean out the three frames of plasticell and my hive will be all 4.9. I do however plan on keeping the honey supers with the larger cell foundation, I will just use a queen excluder to keep her down where she belongs.

I have read that the bee's emerge a few days earlier, in the 4.9 and that this earlier emersion, helps control mites, as they cannot fully develop in the shortened timeframe the bee needs to develop.

**ChickenChaser** · 06-05-2011, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by chevydmax04

What are your thoughts on going back to the way bee keeping was done 30 years ago....
....The foundation I am using is brand new unused but is over 40 years old. The packing slip is from Sear's and Robuck and is dated May 1967....
.... 15 of the 18 new frames fully drawn out and stuffed top to bottom, front and back and side to side with brood. I think I am doing everything the same as I have in the past but I have never had results like this.

Sounds like the ladies have given you THEIR thoughts on the matter. Just think how clean that old foundation must be - wax from the days before treating hives became a must.

MB has some very interesting info and opinions.

Keep us posted!

CC

**snapper1d** · 06-05-2011, 05:42 PM

Chevy I did like you one time years ago.I saved a hive that had AFB buy shaking all the bbes into another deep with new foundation and sprinkled syrup with terramycin in it all over the top bars and even sprinkled some sugar with terra on top with a grease patty with some terra also.Then I put on feeders with syrup and terra.They came out of it and went on about their business.Now please no one out there try this because if you do and it doesnt work for you you can infect all your hives plus everyone elses hives in range of yours.DONT DO IT!!! Its not worth it and it was one of the stupidest tricks I have ever done in bee keeping!!! When you are young you will do some things you should not do.Also Chevy I have some foundation that is over 40 years old and I got it from an old man who's father had bees and had passed away.That was even twenty years ago.Dang I was young back then.Some is still in the boxes that are just about completely gone.I am now starting to use it up fast.If I dont my daughter will be passing it on down to some young guy also!!!!

**Joseph Clemens** · 06-05-2011, 05:46 PM

So you're saying that beeswax foundation, sold by Sears in 1967, was 4.9 mm (small-cell)? That is where I was getting my own foundation back then, and I don't particularly remember it being 4.9 mm.

**chevydmax04** · 06-05-2011, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Joseph Clemens

So you're saying that beeswax foundation, sold by Sears in 1967, was 4.9 mm (small-cell)? That is where I was getting my own foundation back then, and I don't particularly remember it being 4.9 mm.

I am assuming that the old foundation is 4.9, and I make that assumption based upon what I have read that the newer larger cell foundation is something that was introduced in the last 10-15 years. I may be wrong, I will have to break out a ruler and measure.

**Joseph Clemens** · 06-05-2011, 07:19 PM

Steve, you may be correct about the small cell size - I don't know. Though, if it isn't small-cell size, perhaps it's just that the wax is relatively free from harmful contaminants. My understanding is that small-cell, not large-cell is the foundation size that has only been available for the past 10-15 years.

This thread has made me wonder if there is any contemporary research looking into the effects of contaminated beeswax vs nearly pristine and uncontaminated beeswax when used by the bees in the beehive.

**Michael Bush** · 06-05-2011, 08:07 PM

40 years ago it's hard to say, but most at that time had been enlarged to 5.4mm. I don't know what Sear's source was at the time and how old their press would be. Everything I had from the 70's was 5.4mm. 100 years ago it would likely be 5.08mm (5 cells to the inch) unless it was from Italy in which case it might be 4.4mm or from A.I. Root in which case it would be about 5.2mm.