First look help please

[S_Toast]

I went through my whole hive today. Without getting stung too! I went through my upper hive body box and it didn't look great but it wasn't terrible. Lots of bees (a solid layer on both sides of each frame), spotty brood (tan cappings). I did see a few bees emerging from the brood chambers even. I saw NO capped honey (starving?) and no queen. I did see 2 empty queen cells.

When I got to the lower box I knew I was in trouble. It was black with mold. There were very few bees in it. So I lifted it off the bottom board to see what I had there and it was piled deep with dead black rotting bees and maggots. There was, what looked like, chalk brood also. Every frame in that box was moldy and filled with dead brood and bees. Lots of bees dead head first in comb (starving?) There was a little bit of honey in the corner of a few frames. The frames were molded all the way around. I just shook off the few live bees and bagged up the frames and threw them out. Not worth saving at all. I threw the bottom board away as well.

Here are some pics of the bottom board. I didn't see mites on any of the bees and the brood emerging (watched 2) had perfect wings (no signs of mites there). Do we think I'm dealing with starvation here or something more serious? Should I just start feeding and get them a queen or is this hive beyond saving?

During the day there is tons of activity from the hive. Bees going in with full pollen sacks and then back out. Help me know what to do here.

I guess this is what you get when you get a "free" hive huh?

[Oldbee]

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The photos don't look to promising for the success of this hive of bees. It seems you have small hive beetles and wax moth larvae too. It looks like something that needed to be dealt with in April or early May at least; even in Utah.

"I didn't see mites on any of the bees and the brood emerging,.."

You wouldn't be able to see mites under any circumstances in that kind of mess.

[alpha6]

It looks like you are dealing with multiple issues. Mainly, starvation, virus, probably mites and most certainly a moisture issue. How did you over winter this hive?

[Brent Bean]

Looks like Small Hive Beetle larva. They can make a soupy mess of a frame and hive the bees will abscond the hive if the infestation get severe enough. Looks like you aren’t far from that.
I would transfer any healthy frames into another hive along with any bees, clean up the equipment and dispose of any rotten foundation. If you can move the hive a few feet away from it’s current location, this will not confuse any forging bees. Place a couple of beetle traps in the clean hive if you look at the outside frames you will probably see adult hive beetles scurrying away form the light, smash them if you can.

[S_Toast]

I didn't over winter it. I got it from a friend of my in-laws. Said he was sick of the bees. Looks like they were the ones that were sick. It was on the west side of his barn so it was shaded most of the time and it was on a level surface so the moisture couldn't run out. I don't think he ever medicated for anything in the 2 years he had this hive.

I put the upper body box on a new bottom board as the lower box now and a new upper with fresh frames. I didn't know what else to do tonight. I couldn't just put the moldy maggot filled thing back together the way it was. I threw away the whole bottom box frames and all and bottom board.

I just don't know if it's worth trying to treat and requeen or just bag 'em up and kill the hive off and start with a healthy package next spring....

[alpha6]

Well, it sounds like you are making the best of a really stinky, wet gift. Check your frames of brood for eggs or young larve. Also, were the queen cells open on the bottom or ripped open on the sides. If you have one of each than you may have a nice new queen in the hive. You may not get honey, but if you have a good queen and enough bees they can build up before the fall. Take a pic of the good frames and we can give you a better assessment.

[Brent Bean]

The empty queen cells might indicate they have superseded the queen. If the population is small put them in a Nuc, the location you described is ideal for Small hive beetles weak hive in a cool damp environment.
It’s early in the season try and salvage the survivors, they survived despite adverse conditions. If they rebound they may surprise you next season by becoming a boomer colony.

[S_Toast]

Both queen cells were open on the bottom. Didn't see any eggs or young larva, but like I said I did see a 2 bees emerge from cells. So someone is laying something... or was. So if the cells were only open on the bottom and I couldn't find a queen should I order a new queen?
Help me with the Nuc suggestion. Isn't that a smaller hive box with 3-5 frames in it? Should I just remove the new upper box and frames I put on and let them work on the single bottom box for a while? Do I need to feed them or will they do okay now that things are blooming like mad? Every tree in town is in blossom right now.
I really want to nurse this hive back if I can. Getting honey this year isn't my main priority. I am really hoping with lots of advice from you guys I can get these girls strong enough to make it through next winter.

I'll get pics of the "good" frames tomorrow.

[alpha6]

Yeah, pull off the top box till they fill out about 7-8 of the bottom frames. If you are in an area that doesn't have much blooming then get some feed on them...it can't hurt and if there is a good flow they will work the flow before the 1:1. Were the queen cells open on the bottom and pea shaped or were they peanut shaped and had the bottom opened but still attached? Also, eggs are very hard to see if you don't have experience, so look again and also for young larve...they will be moon shaped in a whitish liquid.

[S_Toast]

Queen cell peanut shaped. Open at the bottom, still attached. I'll pull the top box off tomorrow. One of the old frames I left has a few mold spots on it... should I pull it and put in a new one? One of the frames was way built out and stuck to the side of the box so I scraped it down to just above the foundation on that one side. I'm guessing they'll build it back up. All the other frames have some spotty capping so I should wait until they have mostly filled 7-8 of those?

Also... this guy gave another hive to a guy close to his house and I put out a box for all of the bees that came back. Can I put a bee escape in my inner cover then set this box of bees (from a different hive) on top of my "nuc" and combine them? They are just field bees right? I have to give the frames and box back to the guy I borrowed them from so will that work? Also will that be to many bees for a single box? Should I not try to add them?

[Brent Bean]

I suggested using the Nuc if the colony was very small. If the population is bigger break them down to a single deep. If your queen cells indicate that virgin queens have hatched they have most likely sorted out who is strongest. They will not take a mating flight for about 7-9 days. So you might not see eggs at this time. One method of boosting a weak hive is switching a strong hives location with the weak hive in the same yard preferably hives that are within a few feet of each other. The weak hive will gain the foraging bees and strengthen the weak hive population.
If your in a good nectar flow feeding will probably be a waste of sugar, I have found that bees will ignore sugar syrup when natural nectar sources are available.
What you have mentioned about the salvageable portions of the colony I would bet it will recover. Clean equipment a sunny location and a little help form the beekeeper, is what they need and they should reward you with honey and the satisfaction that you helped bring them back from the brink.

[frazzledfozzle]

you need a new queen if you haven't already got one, there's alot of stone brood and chalk brood mummies on your bottom board which is usually cleared up with a new queen. the mummies are the white and grey pod shaped things which are dead mummified pupae. I also think you need to feed your hive it's probably hungry.

frazz

[notaclue]

The old frame with mold...was it in with the small hive beetles? If it was rinse it off very well. I learned the hard way that if I don't do that I have had 100% abscond rate. They leave real quick. If I rinse the wooden ware off after scraping (leaving good comb intact if possible) I don't suffer the loss of my bees to parts unknown. One last note I hang the frames and stack the boxes and tops/bottoms so they get sun dried and gently shake water out of the comb on the frames.

If you can get the foragers I say every little bit helps. Just don't do like I did the first time and tried to retrieve it before dark. Took a few days to realize what I had forgotten. I do spray them down with HBH in sugar water to help with combining if there is an issue with acceptance.

[S_Toast]

Well at least I've found a queen now...