Slovenian AZ Beehive

[cerezha]

... yes, that's exactly right. And difficult! And that's without bees in it! I definitely think it needs some type of guide to align the frames. I'm spinning my brain trying to think of a solution!!!!

I guess: practice-practice-practice!

[Ziva]

Ziva, I really enjoyed the detail pictures you shared! Thank you so much!!

You're welcome!

It will be interesting to hear what you think of the hive in use.

I'm interested too! But until I figure out how the hive works (like aligning frames, and a zillion other things) I can't put bees in! Also, it's not meant to be a free-standing hive. I don't have the money to build a beehouse/shed/shelter so it'll be a while. Wish I could start it in spring, but too much to figure out first.....and get the money to build a shelter.....

I wonder if the curved tops and bottoms of the frames are for beespace from front to back or for the frames to slide easier on the bars or something similar.

I would also like to know the purpose. Right now I'm just guessing! (like I wrote in the above post). One thing I can say for sure, the AZ hive gives a whole new meaning to the term, "steep learning curve"!!

Ah, the joys and challenges of beekeeping.........

[Ziva]

I guess: practice-practice-practice!

Yes, that's true, but right now I wish we had that "banging your head against a brick wall" emoticon!!!!

[cerezha]

Ah, the joys and challenges of beekeeping.........

Come on! I am sure, you will figured everything out and we will be jealous watching (more pictures I guess) your busy bees in this beautiful hive. In fact, I already jealous! Unfortunately, I have no space for beehouse... and I am limited to 2 beehives total!

[mmmooretx]

I find the hive designs very interesting and the bee houses very creative and beautiful. While we do not get snow, maybe once every 4 years, in Houston I very much like the idea of not unstacking and re-stacking hive bodies very interesting. I cannot translate the designs and quite a few of the English translated sites are broken or are no longer active (or my companies filters do not let me go there).
I think I would lean towards the three "box" design but would be interested in the yearly maintenance timeline processes for the two box system using the queen excluder. I would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the frames, foundation, and what type of foundation is typically used. For example if using wax foundation is it all crush and strain or do they use extractors?
I did look at the eBay listing for the 2 "box" hive and thought the price was reasonable (beautiful workmanship), but the shipping is pretty high (almost doubles the hive cost).
Also the feeders look pretty small which may mean two feedings a day during winter?
I am going back to the start of the thread to read again to see what I missed...
Thanks for sharing a very interesting method of beekeeping!

[mmmooretx]

Yes, he's the one I bought my hive from. He seems like a very nice man. (That looks like a new listing, when I bough mine he had already sold 2 and had 8 left). Anyway, when I first saw the original listing I didn't have any money so I sent him a message and told him I wanted to buy one but had to wait until I had the money. He answered back and said no problem, and that he would pack one up for me and send it when I had the money. I bought one after I got paid and he sent it immediately. It arrived here on the island last Fri at the post office. I couldn't pick it up then and the PO is closed on the weekend. I'm dying to pick it up tomorrow but we have a storm coming in tonight so I'll have to wait until Tues. Can't wait to see it!!!!!

Ziva,
If you do not mind answering what were the US Customs fees on top of the eBay listed shipping fees? Please keep us updated on your learning curve using this style of hive in the USA. I find this hive very interesting and would love to follow your progress.
Thank you!

[Goran]

You're welcome! It is a beautiful hive but......so complicated! That's why I have so many questions! But the AZ hive is older than the LR (Lang) hive, and Slovenian beekeepers have been using it for so long, so there must be a way to learn it, I hope!



Yes, that's exactly right. And difficult! And that's without bees in it! I definitely think it needs some type of guide to align the frames. I'm spinning my brain trying to think of a solution!!!!


I wondered that too. Is it for bee space? To keep the bees from propolizing the frames to the metal bars? I don't know. I did notice in Bostek's video he posted on another thread, http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ight=slovenian that his frames didn't look like they had curved tops/bottoms, so maybe it's not necessary? Also, his feeder looks different. His video shows him inspecting his AZ hive. He also used a wooden board of sorts before pulling the frames. I don't know if that helped with alignment or not?

About curved tops and bottoms main thing is to avoid/ reduce killing of bees when taking and returning frames. Also some people wire wax foundation vertically and it could be then the problem. I spoke about frames today, one man says that for AŽ standard is enough 5 wires horizontally, for AŽ Grom which has some bigger frame needed 6 horizontal wires. I trust him, cause he is experienced beekeeper.
Also to see something, you need 19 hives more to adequately manage and have proper result. So, buy/build 19 more and You'll get results -as he said. Also he prefer AŽ grom rather than AŽ standard.
I remembered today that I had some literature about AŽ hives ( not in english), but I'll need some time to dig for it from somewhere, I don't know where exactly store it.

At the end one link I stumble upon it at one other forum which I'm also member about one slovenian beekeeper, some photos, texts ..
http://www.cebelarstvo-kozinc.com

[Ziva]

Come on! I am sure, you will figured everything out and we will be jealous watching (more pictures I guess) your busy bees in this beautiful hive. In fact, I already jealous! Unfortunately, I have no space for beehouse... and I am limited to 2 beehives total!

Don't be jealous! I live in a small apt/flat. Talk about no space!! Trust me, I understand! That's why I have a lot to figure out! My hives are located on a small farm and two others on a friend's property. But, I can't stand not being able to see the hives every day soooooo, I have a hive on my tiny balcony! Just barely enough room for the hive and a small chair. As far as a beehouse, it will definitely need to be built on a trailer/wheels and be put on a farm somewhere. It will be on wheels so I can move it if the farmer's decide they want me too. Building on wheels adds the cost of a trailer, so I really need to get creative to figure out how to do this since I'm very low income! I go without heat in the winter so I can save the money to buy bee stuff. I'm determined!!

[cerezha]

... I have a hive on my tiny balcony! Just barely enough room for the hive and a small chair. ....

Could you make a sort of box around AZ hive on your balcony? You do not need a whole beehouse. It may be just some space for thermoinsulation. Another completely weird idea - if you keep your room cold, you could place AZ beehive in the window (like window air conditioner) so the back is in the room (sort of adapter for the window needed). It is weird, but, actually, this is probably would be closest communication with the bees... In Russia, in winter, people in the villages used to have one room in the house without heating. They kept beehives in the room entrances facing outside wall. In the wall, they made a small holes connecting hive exits to outside (sort of tunnel). Sorry, I did not mean to make fun from your situation. I wish you success. Sergey

[Ziva]

I cannot translate the designs and quite a few of the English translated sites are broken or are no longer active (or my companies filters do not let me go there).

I know, I have the same problem! Many (most) of the links I've seen are the same----broken or no longer active, so it's not just your filters. Frustrating! Not to mention lack of managing info available in English....

I think I would lean towards the three "box" design but would be interested in the yearly maintenance timeline processes for the two box system using the queen excluder. I would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the frames, foundation, and what type of foundation is typically used. For example if using wax foundation is it all crush and strain or do they use extractors?

According to the beekeeper Goran spoke too, he prefers the Grom (11-12 frames) rather than the standard (10 frames) that I have. Goran also mentioned about wiring frames so that sounds like they use extractors. I have Warrés and a kTBH so I do crush and strain. With the AZ hive, I'll do what is recommended by AZ beeks. I measured the frame in the AZ hive and the dimensions are 410mm (16 1/8") wide and 263mm (10 3/8") deep.

I did look at the eBay listing for the 2 "box" hive and thought the price was reasonable (beautiful workmanship), but the shipping is pretty high (almost doubles the hive cost).

I know but they aren't available in the US so ordering from Slovenia was the only option. Although the shipping nearly doubled the hive cost, I thought it was reasonable considering the size and weight and shipping from half way around the world. And the shipping was fast too! The seller sent it immediately. He also has a listing for the UK and I noticed the shipping cost was ~the same!

Also the feeders look pretty small which may mean two feedings a day during winter?

Yes, they are small, so that's another management technique I would like more info on! There are separate feeders, 1 for each chamber, but it still seems like daily feeding would be necessary during dearths/bad weather unless they have enough stores.

I am going back to the start of the thread to read again to see what I missed...
Thanks for sharing a very interesting method of beekeeping!

You're welcome! While you read through the thread you'll see where I posted a link to another thread posted by Bostek in Slovenia who has AZ hives. He posted a video showing him inspecting a hive.

[Ziva]

Ziva,
If you do not mind answering what were the US Customs fees on top of the eBay listed shipping fees? Please keep us updated on your learning curve using this style of hive in the USA. I find this hive very interesting and would love to follow your progress.
Thank you!

There were no US Customs fees/taxes so I only paid the cost of the hive + shipping as listed on eBay. I did get a notice from PayPal that they'll charge me for currency conversion if the seller decides to take the money out of his PayPal account. But, so far I haven't been charged.

I will post my progress, but it will be slow since there are a lot of technicalities to figure out first!

[Ziva]

Could you make a sort of box around AZ hive on your balcony? You do not need a whole beehouse. It may be just some space for thermoinsulation. Another completely weird idea - if you keep your room cold, you could place AZ beehive in the window (like window air conditioner) so the back is in the room (sort of adapter for the window needed). It is weird, but, actually, this is probably would be closest communication with the bees...

No, it isn't weird and I have thought of both. Unfortunately the balcony is too small since I already have a hive there. But, tomorrow when it's light out, I'll re-measure again and see if there's room if I remove the chair. There would also need to be enough space for me to work both hives. The balcony is off the kitchen/dining area. Except there's no room for "dining" (no table/chairs) because I have a macaw and an African Grey parrot and their cages take up all the space. There's a glass sliding door which I leave open during our short summer and the birds are literally right next to the hive!
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/p...rdsandbees.jpg

I've also considered putting the hive in the window in the living room, but again, not a lot of room there. When I'm putting hives together I build them in the bedroom (on the floor with a tarp)
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/p...redrilling.jpg
But there's not much room since I also store bee equipment and honey buckets in there. So I move completed boxes/roofs/feeders/floors into the living room...
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/p...dhiveboxes.jpg
During the season most of those boxes are in use, but when the hives are reduced for winter, they're stored back in my apt again. Needless to say, I don't have guests over because there's no room! I live in a beehouse!

In Russia, in winter, people in the villages used to have one room in the house without heating. They kept beehives in the room entrances facing outside wall. In the wall, they made a small holes connecting hive exits to outside (sort of tunnel). Sorry, I did not mean to make fun from your situation. I wish you success. Sergey

Wow! That would be great to have only one room without heat! It gets freezing in here when it snows! But I don't want the birds to freeze too, so I hang clear vinyl, floor to ceiling, around their cages forming a sort of 'tent' for them and then put a small heater inside their tent and keep them at 60F. I can't afford the electricity for more than that. Also, since I live in an apt. the land lord would not allow me to drill holes in the wall for a hive.....

No need to be sorry, I didn't think you were making fun of my situation at all. You were offering very good ideas! And who knows, one of them just might work!

[Ziva]

About curved tops and bottoms main thing is to avoid/ reduce killing of bees when taking and returning frames.

Ah, that makes sense! So the "bee space" guess was not too far off...

Also some people wire wax foundation vertically and it could be then the problem. I spoke about frames today, one man says that for AŽ standard is enough 5 wires horizontally, for AŽ Grom which has some bigger frame needed 6 horizontal wires. I trust him, cause he is experienced beekeeper.

Thank you for that information!

Also to see something, you need 19 hives more to adequately manage and have proper result. So, buy/build 19 more and You'll get results -as he said.

Wow, 20 AZ hives! I could never afford to buy more so they would have to be built. I'm not a wood worker, so I'd need to pay someone to build them. I can build Warré hives because they're easy, but the AZ is too complicated. That reminds me.....I bought the AZ hive to copy from it to build more from. So I won't be able to put bees in it until I have at least 1 more AZ hive built so I'll have 1 to copy from. I think it's best to see the actual hive (un-occupied) while copying instead of just plans.

Also he prefer AŽ grom rather than AŽ standard.

Did he say why he prefers the grom rather than the standard? Where I live, it rains 10 months out of the year, so we have a short summer and a short nectar flow. Actually, there's plenty of nectar sources but the rain washes away the nectar and/or it's too much rain for the bees to fly in. But I have Carniolans, so they do fly in lower temps and light rain. Last two years have been poor honey harvest, but this year we broke a record with 80 days of sun so had a honey harvest.

I remembered today that I had some literature about AŽ hives ( not in english), but I'll need some time to dig for it from somewhere, I don't know where exactly store it.

I know what that's like to not know where I put things! But let me know if you ever find it and can share some information. I really appreciate all your help!

At the end one link I stumble upon it at one other forum which I'm also member about one slovenian beekeeper, some photos, texts ..
http://www.cebelarstvo-kozinc.com

Thank you!

[Goran]

Well, when You are so willing to succeed it would be sin not to try to help You. I will search for literature, bother again beekeepers about it, and try to give You right informations to don't wonder around. But I'll need couple of days.
Yes they go in extractor ( as same which is used for langstroth or dadant frames), in fact in AŽ are all carniolans, we do not want some other, mine are also carniolans ( in langstroth hive). Overwintering excellent, spring buildup explosive, etc., etc.
The rest I will try to tell next time.

[mmmooretx]

Ziva,
Thank you so much for answering all of my queries, I do appreciate your time and support. I can see from your pictures you are very determined and I wish you the best of luck. Please keep us posted on your progress.

[Mr. C]

I'll check again when I get home, but I think I have some links to some beehouse websites at home. I watched a YouTube video of a guy working one of the hives in the beehouse. It appeared to me that he had round frame guides that the frames slid on and the curved top and bottom where to slide on those guides. I think being round helped them slide easier and kept them from getting stuck with propolis, but I could be wrong. I'll double check at home, couldn't open your photos here so I'll check back in.

[Ziva]

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. It helps a lot!

Does anyone have any idea, from looking at the hive photos, how much it would cost to have one built? I've asked several people here and can't get a straight answer. They all say they'd need to build one first before they can answer. I can't commit to having more built without knowing in advance what the cost would be!

It looks like the front is made from 1 X 4s joined together, and the top/sides/bottom are all one piece also 1" (actually ~3/4").

Thanks for any suggestions!

[Mr. C]

So I couldn't find the video again, but I did find a website I checked out earlier on be houses. It has some similar hive types, only taller.
http://brookfieldfarmhoney.wordpress...or-washington/
Anyway it appears I was totally wrong about the curved frames, the ones I found had setups similar to yours with the metal poles running perpendicular to the frames to support them as they are slid in. The only thing I can think is it either helps keep them from building comb on the bottom or maybe helps keep you from rolling bees that are walking on the bottom as you drag a frame out over the supports, but your guess is as good as mine there.

[Goran]

Just a little more about curved parts, that also divert bees from building wax on top, ease the movement for bees on top, and as said previously protect the bees when you lift up the frame.
For AŽ grom – it has 2cm higher frame than standard, and as this beekeeper said it means a lot when 2cm more of honey is above their head, and better formation. For overwintering they remain in one box, and I think better than in a langstroth. And when acacia flow is OK, they easily fill the honey box with 30kg of honey. AŽ grom with 11+11 frames (brood and honey box above) is most common at my place, and people who has them won't change a bit on it.

Also I remembered You'll need holder for frames with spacings on it when inspecting a hive „kozlić“ ( link with a picture of it „ http://www.budija-sp.si/index.php?op...d=39&Itemid=32 “).

Also I found something interesting for maybe transfering bees from other hive types to your AŽ. Plastic holders that can be attached to AŽ frame and removed when returning to AŽ – „ http://www.rihar-kocjan.si/index.php...g/detail&id=16 „.

I'm searching for another book where is more detailed described work by months, but didn't found it yet..

For now, this much. I hope this would be helpful for You.

Forgot to tell, every day I go to work I pass through Filipovac.

[mmmooretx]

It would be wonderful if we could get some detailed plans for the 2 & 3 floor units so we could convert to American standard lumber sizes. For me the best might be something like a set of plans and hardware kits, which would save hugely on shipping costs. A nice bonus would be some expandable plans for the bee house too. Ah well dreams are cheap and reality is expensive....