Request for photos: Foundationless Frame

[Moon]

Hey guys,

Those of you out there with pictures of your foundationless frames and would be willing to share them with the rest of us; would you please post them on this thread? I would like to see any pictures in any stages of development by the bees or construction by you!

As always
Appreciate the replies!

Moon

[Ben Brewcat]

Mine are just a frame that I don't put foundation into. It takes longer to take and post a pic than to build 10 of them.

As to the comb, it has the occasional transition area (as natural comb will) but otherwise it's pretty much just comb.

[John V]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/showmej...cs/5701148810/

[CharlieN]

Frame from an early March split taken 5/17/11. I run most everything in Mediums with an unlimited brood nest.51711.jpg

[Ben Franklin]

John V: Nice

[no1cowboy]

[Solomon Parker]

There's a couple pictures of my foundationless frames at various stages of comb on my blog. Can't post them here, too large, too lazy, other excuses.

[Moon]

Wow, thanks for the amazing photos you guys! Those are crazy good! Does anybody have any photos of any foundationless ones that didn't draw out so well? I've read some different things that say the bees sometimes won't attach the comb to certain parts of the frame to help with the harmonics of the comb when they communicate by dance or even when the queen will communicate with different vibrations?

[D Semple]

Don

[Moon]

How many of you guys are using wire or fishing line in your foundationless frames? I was thinking if the foundationless frames were going in the broodnest there isn't any reason to but added support because they'll never be extracted. Do you guys use foundationless in the broodnest and then frames with foundation in your supers? Thanks for the great pics everyone =)

[John V]

This is only my second year in bee keeping. I don't have any drawn supers yet so I'm using foundation until next year. Then I'll space the foundationless in between the drawn comb in the supers to start phasing them in. I guess it's not necassary, but I've read it makes straighter comb if drawn between other drawn comb. I have drawn deep frames I am able to use in the brood chambers to intersperse the foundationless in with.

They aren't wired. You do have to be careful and not hold them horizontally or they will sag out, especially if they haven't been attached on the sides or bottoms yet. Luckily I was already aware of that issue and never started the habit of turning my frames in all different directions. I won't wire my supers when the time comes. I've read they can still be extracted, just not as fast until the comb is a little older and more firm.

These are only a few personal experiences and a lot of what I have read, for what thats worth. Although I do trust the sources.

Later, John

[MJC417]

After some trial and error, eventually all my hives will be foundationless.

[NasalSponge]

Yes I crosswire my foundationless.

[CharlieN]

Frame from a Russian swarm I hived little over a week ago. RussianFrame.jpg

[BeehiveProject]

Using Walter T. Kelly Foundationless frame with comb guide. Applied beeswax to the guide, should be good to go yes? Others like these? Success with them?

[NasalSponge]

[Nico108]

Can we talk about comb guide for a minute...I'm new to all of this and in fact don't even have my bees until Friday, but would like to start out foundationless after reading Micheal Bush's website. In fact, it seems the only way. So, here are a few questions;
1. In our 8 frame medium kit, we received sixteen frames; each one has a groove in the bottom and the top. To start a comb guide, do I just glue a popsicle stick in the top? Or should I take a "bit of foundation" and attach it to the top? Some people seem to be using dowels running straight down...and what about wire?
2. Is foundationless just for the brood nest and not for the super? If you use it in the super, do you just cut out a fair portion leaving an inch at the top and that is your guide for the next year?
3. If I get a nuc, the five frames are presumably on foundation. Do I set them in the hive together with foundationless on either side? And how do I intersperse the? I have read that you don't want to shuffle your frames...
Very confused but excited. Thanks to anyone who can answer these...
Nico

[Walliebee]

These are great pictures of foundationless frames being shown. Is their anyone willing to show their not so perfect frames, and tell us what might have gone wrong?

1. To start a comb guide, do I just glue a popsicle stick in the top? Yes, you can. That's one way. You can also use the wedge from the top bar, turned on its side, and glued in place. (Nico, you don't have this type)
Or should I take a "bit of foundation" and attach it to the top? Again, yes you can. It's called a starter strip.
Some people seem to be using dowels running straight down...and what about wire? Wire come later after the comb is built for strength and support. I'm not familiar with using dowels.

2. Is foundationless just for the brood nest and not for the super? It is an individual choice. If you use foundationless in the supers, you will need to wire them if you plan to use a radial extractor.
If you use it in the super, do you just cut out a fair portion leaving an inch at the top and that is your guide for the next year? Yes, then you can make cut comb, and/or use the crush and strain extraction method.

3. If I get a nuc, the five frames are presumably on foundation. Do I set them in the hive together with foundationless on either side? Yes, you do not want to seperate the frames.
And how do I intersperse the? The bees will expand outward as the colony grows. As more of the frames are drawn you can work them inward some, but you never want to seperate frames that have brood or new eggs. You will get a feel for the process as you inspect the progress.

[Desert Viking Ranch]

The bees will expand outward as the colony grows. As more of the frames are drawn you can work them inward some, but you never want to seperate frames that have brood or new eggs. You will get a feel for the process as you inspect the progress.

Can you explain why you never want to seperate the frames? I have been working at converting over to foundationless and I have been inserting a foundtionless frame (I use 1/2" starter strips of foundation I cut up and place inside the top groove - works well for me) in between drawn foundation almost every other one. What is the downside to doing this? Am I slowing down the comb drawing process maybe?

[OSafado]

Can you explain why you never want to seperate the frames?

I'm still a bit of a newb, but the reason is you don't want to separate brood to the extent that the colony can't regulate the temperature. That said, separating brood with foundationless frames is sometimes recommended as a swarm prevention measure. If the hive is strong, it is probably fine...if it isn't strong, you could lose a frame or two of brood.