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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Currie, NC
    Posts
    159

    Default Posable laying worker and a queen in hive...

    ok,

    I have a swarm in a hive thats been bit over 2 weeks and i have not see a queen or any sign of egg's, or worms... so I was thinking i need to buy a queen....
    but...
    while working another hive I found a cap'ed Penut on side of a frame...wow ... i put it into the queen-less swarm hive 5 days ago... hive now about 3 weeks old now...

    Today I went looking for this new queen, seen the frame with queen cell and the brood I put in hive... there she was the new queen.... not very plump but its only been 5 days... so i thought cool.....
    but while looking at rest of frame's... BAM..... worms and capped brood on a frame I know should not have brood in. these worms and capped brood looks like it is drones.....

    Question:
    Can a laying worker and a hatched Queen live in same hive....? <- peanut hatched Queen i put in hive
    or
    If i just did not see swarm Queen and there are 2 Queens inside...the swarm one and the new hatched out peanut Queen , can both live in same hive...?
    or
    Does a laying worker look like a not so plump queen...???? What i saw did have a big long abdomen but not like a good laying Queen thats say 2 mth's Old... know to "bee" good...lol but this new Queen is only 5 days...

    Thanks...
    Steve C.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Brown County, IN
    Posts
    2,027

    Default Re: Posable laying worker and a queen in hive...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
    I have a swarm in a hive thats been bit over 2 weeks and i have not see a queen or any sign of egg's, or worms...
    1) It's not unusual for a newly cage-released queen, or queen that stopped laying in order to swarm, to take up to two weeks to begin laying.
    2) It's "larva", not "worms".

    ...there she was the new queen.... not very plump but its only been 5 days...
    Queen size will change, depending on if she's laying or not. From what you described, the newly-emerged queen may not have even mated yet.

    worms and capped brood on a frame I know should not have brood in. these worms and capped brood looks like it is drones...
    Was the laying pattern filled in, or scattered about? A queen will lay in a tight pattern, filling almost every cell, a laying worker will make more of a shotgun pattern.

    Question:
    Can a laying worker and a hatched Queen live in same hive....?
    Not usually. Once a hive has laying workers, they typically kill any introduced queens since they believe they already have a queen.

    If ...there are 2 Queens inside...,can both live in same hive...?
    For awhile, but they'll straighten things out.

    I'd leave the colony alone for a week or more. It sounds to me like you do NOT have laying workers, but do have a young queen.
    Last edited by indypartridge; 05-10-2011 at 04:51 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Currie, NC
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    2) It's "larva", not "worms".
    LOL... I know.... I do that just to eark the wife...as she also corrects me on proper language...

    The swarm was about 2w 2d old with out any sign's of queen or egg/brood before I put the peanut cell in.

    The pattern is kinda of a shotgun pattern...but I think that is more because, the field bee's are filling every cell possible with nectar, but there was a small larva area of about 6 to 8 all beside each other....
    I put this swarm on some junk looking somewhat drawn out frames and some 1:1 to try to help make them stick...the rest was all new frames... I have run out of drawn frames with the other hives... so what cells that were there, they fill with nectar....(Major Major Flow here right now) This is a large swarm, about 4 Lbs worth.

    Thanks for the Input/Help
    I've only been keeping bee's 5 years and I think I have the seen most normal problems...it's just the odd ball things I don't know how to handle....
    Steve C.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,380

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    Laying workers are nearly always present, it is only when the nurse/house bees stop performing their duties of removing the eggs they lay, that their presence is noticed. Pheromones produced by normal worker brood, keeps the nurse/house bees on task, and they keep the eggs laid by the "laying workers" cleaned up.

    Once nurse/house bees stop cleaning up after the laying workers, they apparently begin treating the laying workers as queens, even destroying actual queens, seemingly to defend the laying workers. Giving them combs of normal, open brood, seems to restore normal behavior to the nurse/house bees and they again clean up after the laying workers and stop treating them like queens.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,208

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    >Does a laying worker look like a not so plump queen...????

    It doesn't matter. You can't find them all.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Currie, NC
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    Thanks....

    After reading that... what I saw was a Queen... then... I'll just keep a eye on this hive and see if it turn's into a good laying queen...
    So far with the exception of this 1 swarm, all my swarms this year have big fat very plump queens.....with very good brood patterns... so 1 out of 11 ain't bad.
    and this hive may kick into gear.... time will tell....
    Steve C.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Council Bluffs, IA
    Posts
    127

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    Are there more than 1 egg in each cell? Are the eggs stuck to the sides, or the very bottom? I've heard workers can't reach the bottom of the cells.... their abdomens aren't long enough, and they will often lay more than 3 or 4 eggs in each cell.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lititz, PA, USA
    Posts
    710

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    On the multiple-egg front though, a young newly mated queen will sometimes lay multiple eggs in cells while she's learning the ropes. As she gets the hang of everything though this stops.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Currie, NC
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Possible laying worker and a Queen in hive...

    *** UPDATE ***

    I have good normal brood(Workers) in the hive now.... there was a patch of drone capped brood, but on the other frames that had larvae what I thought was drone larvae is now worker capped brood, a good little patch.... they only have to increase in size to fill up box..

    lol... my only problem now is, there is not very much open cells for brood, as they are storing nectar like no tomorrow... and i'm out of comb.... ho hum....

    Thanks for all the reply's....
    Steve C.

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