I know this may bring about many opinions but I would like to hear opinions, thoughts, concerns etc with this type of an outline for a sideline income. I could be way off on the accuracy and would accept any criticism. Is this possible for someone with a full time job? This is pie in the sky assuming going treatment free.
Based on 100 production hives:
6000 lbs Honey X $3.00/lb Average = $18,000
Queen Production= 50 Queens X $25 = $1,250
Queen Cell Production = 50 Cells X $6.00 = $300
Virgin Queen Production = 50 Virgins X $12 = $600
50 Hives For Pollination = $60 X 50 Hives = $3,000
Nuc production= 20 X $120= $2,400
No, this is just me trying to see if this is something I can work towards in the upcoming years. Definitely not something I am in a position to jump into tomorrow.
Bet you could sell a good bit more than 20 nucs... surely 50. Also if you did not want to retail all 6000 lbs of honey you could sell 1/2 in bulk and retail the rest.
A question though... do hives in your area generally average 60 lbs per?
I see no meds... a commercial op that is TF? Certainly a challenge.
How about supplemental feed. 100 hives will need a few totes of feed.
BeeCultivador wrote this back in 2003:
In the latest edition of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" there is a table on page 732 which could be converted into the spreadsheet that you desire. There is also extensive information included that should help to answer most of the questions that you posed above.
Good call on the feed, I did not think about that. Good to know about selling in bulk and that you think I could do more than 20 nucs. I would love to make this more than just a hobby, but with a wife, a 2 year old daughter and a baby on the way it may be further in the future than I would like. But if this can get me moving in the right direction and maybe even spark someone elses interest all the better.
Individually all your income items are possible, collectively it would be problematic and is all based on the assumption that you can have 100 productive hives without having to purchase any bees or queens yourself. You are not funding any depreciation or allowing for capital expenditures. Trying to net $200 per hive is easier done on paper than in the real world. Not trying to rain on your parade just think your numbers are overly optimistic.
great advice. The other posts are good advice also. Retailing 6000 lbs of honey is very optimistic, I would plan on wholesaling most of it (1.40-1.80 per lb) until you can get some retail accounts going to support that volume. Everything looks good on paper, but take it from a growing operation....with bees the best laid plans are just that....plans....then the markets, weather, blooms, and the darn bees destroy your well laid plans
Here in the NE, 10% winter loss is very optimistic IMO. Also pollination often impacts honey production if not apples. You can probably sell all the nucs you can produce.
That is true now. There is a boom in people wanting to save the world and bees. In five years many of those people will have bought bee, got stung, lost bees, lost interest,etc. It may be harder to sell nucs.
Regarding pollination: how are you planning to move 50 hives? You'll need a truck and trailer. And you'll need something to lift those hives on/off the truck.
Your projected queen production will just about cover the amount of queens you'll need yourself.
I'd also talk to local beekeepers about their annual colony losses and try to get a realistic number for that.
And your numbers don't factor in the initial capital costs of 100 colonies. That's considerably more than pocket change.
You will not be able to sell the virgins...doesnt work here at least. you can sell twice or 3 times that many nucs. Bump your honey price to 2 bucks a pound. And you can make a lot more cells than that....
Not trying to be a rain cloud or anything like that. We have had a bad year so far and it really hit me yesterday....
mike
I appreciate everyone's feedback. Definitely some food for thought. I would be curious how someone who has recently went from a hobbyist to a sideliner and how they made it work.
Despite much of the negative input I have read on this thread, I would say that you can easily profit $20,000 a year with 100 hives. I have only been beekeeping for a couple of years, basically getting my feet wet. In my second year I nearly lost all of my hives to SHB, but I have since learned how to deal with that. I just finished my first pollination contract with a small watermelon farmer and have now been able to move into selling products at a large nursery. I don't have nearly 100 hives, but I expect to be making a profit by next year, and like you I have a full time job and a family with more kids than you.
I recently bought a large extractor from an elderly man who was a beekeeper for about 20 years. He kept approximately 50 hives, some in Vermont and some in FL, as he moved back and forth after retiring from his regular job up north. His wife was the bookkeeper for his bee business and he told me without a doubt he made a minimum of$10,000 in profit every year, and his wife did not miss any expenses. It is my intent to do the same as I grow in my knowledge and my hive numbers. Slowly promote your product, get in good with local landowners, nurseries, and others. It can and will happen if you want it to. Learn to get the kids involved as they get older and it becomes a fun family affair.
I don't see any costs for labor, insurance, cell phone, accounting, computers, business license, trucks, depreciation, extracting equipment, extracting room and the other 50 expenses that eat away at profit. Are you going to do all of that work by yourself?
I have gone from hobby to sideline and back to hobby several times I build up slow and then experience big losses and get tossed back into the hobby category again. With only 100 hives you will most likely experience the same thing. Some years even people running 3000 colonies can't sell any nucs because they need all that they produce to replenish their losses.
I would break it down and progress into it step by step.... sell only queens one year, and then add nucs and then start producing and selling extra honey. Marketing a honey crop is the hardest part, honey isn't very popular in the USA and there is an abundance of it at every Farmers market and natural food store in the country.
Hi bluegrass, I appreciate that, it is very helpful. You at least gave me a track to run on. I must say that some of the responses make it sound like it is absolutely impossible to make any extra money on bees. I find it hard to believe that there is no way to make money with 100 hives. I guess I want the real story and not just people saying that it is impossible. If there is a way to do it and make it work I am all ears. People are doing it now, even in CT so I know that it is a possibility. I appreciate the feedback from everyone.
There are multiple ways to make money on bees, that is one of the nice things about bees. Most people try and maximize every source of income from bees, but sometimes it is more productive to focus on one thing and not worry about diversification, especially if you are a small outfit. It is pretty easy to only make Nucs and make a few hundred dollars of off each hive every spring. I have had years when I made 300.00 per hive without extracting a drop of honey. Sometimes you sacrifice one source of income in order to promote another. For example: if I am in Queen production mode I want good nectar and pollen sources and in order to get them I provide pollination for free.
One advantage you do have is the understanding that it will not happen overnight. Since you have a job that supports your family already all you are investing is a bit of money and your spare time. The little bit of profit you make by selling honey to friends at work or in the display at your local hardware store will help you pay for the expansion of your operation. It will also help you build a name locally and hopefully people will come to you looking for their annual honey fix. Take your time, develop your markets and build as you get the extra cash. In five years if your situation has changed the only money invested is money that did not come directly out of your pocket.
If trying to start this with no outside income the advice would be different.
I agree 100% with you on that. I agree with what Kirk Webster says about not going into debt as you are building the business. I think that is probably the best way to go is to take your time and build to 100 hives, reinvesting the profit as you go along to expand. Thanks so much for the encouragement!
Very interesting bluegrass. Sounds as if you are saying there is so much energy a hive can output a year. It is up to the beekeeper to determine if that energy will be in making (ultimately selling) queens, bees, honey, pollination or some combination. It makes sense that if you are selling nucs in the spring, assuming not selling overwintered nucs, you cannot expect much in terms of honey because the "energy" of the hive is going into bees, not honey.
Any sideline beekeepers willing to post their breakdown of number of hives, expenses, income per pollination contract, honey sales vs nuc production etc? Could be helpful to those who want to take the next step.
Mosherd1
I am not in the business or a sideliner but I found this information on the web and it may be helpful to answer your questions or to use as a checklist? The documents can be downloaded in excel format too.
I have not been at this too long, but I've started more than a few side line businesses.
Look at this way instead:
How many hives do you have now? How many did you lose last winter? When I decided to increase the amount of hives I have with Nuc's this season, I stood in line with a lot of people who were replacing hives with Nucs.I'd guess to over winter 100, you'd need 120 in the fall.
Look for Grant in this forum. He is a Presbyterian minister with a sideline of beekeeping. He keeps about 150 hives somewhere in Missouri. He says he makes money from beekeeping and takes it seriously. He says he "treats it like a business". He has published two .pdf books about beekeeping, that he will sell you. I have one, it is a reasonably good collection of information, and plan.
He is doing what you hope to do, makes money, and has grown it up himself.
I recently read a post of his in the commercial forum, I think under " how many colonies to be considered commercial"
...if you don't already have stock and management practices that you have demonstrated successful in your area (for you), then i think you make a mistake with any predictions.
we work with a few treatment free beekeepers, and we pay a very high premium for their honey...but would not pay that (nor market) the honey if the bees are fed.
there are lots of ways to make money with bees if that is your goal. if your primary goal is to make money in the short term, you will find yourself in a bind at some point (some of your bees will always look like they need "help", and if your bottom line is at stake, you may not be in a position to not treat, not feed, etc. If you've already setup a market for treatment free honey and you are in such a position, you have to choose between the bottom line, and being true to what you are telling your customers...a difficult position to be in. All of a sudden (if you've treated to save the majority of your operation), you don't have the product you've been marketing, and you either have to tell your customers that your honey is not treatment free (the customers you gained because you are treatment free), or you have to lie to your customers.
I'm running 30 hives and I'm about breaking even after factoring cap improvements each year. (Hive bodies, frames, processing equipment, etc.) I figure after I've finally outfitted my honey processing this year (skimming off the profits as I go) I _might_ be profiting about $50/hive next year IF I can get my standard 80lbs/hive. I'd be totally frightened to figure out how much labor went into that $50.
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