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  1. #1
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    Mar 2010
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    Richmond, Virginia, USA
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    Default We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Installed bees in my first Warre Hive yesterday and went over to check on them this morning. Abbe Warre claimed that since the bees were in a smaller space they got started earlier in the morning. One morning doesn't really qualify as good scientific evidence, but the Warre hive was buzzing while a strong Lang, and three strong TBH's were completely dormant.

  2. #2
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    Dec 2009
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    Kingsley, MI. USA
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    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Imagine that...

    The bees in the ventilated, uninsulated hives need everyone to stay in the hive and keep the brood warm until the day heats up up more. The Warre is already warm, so many bees can begin to forage early.

    Pretty cool, huh?

    Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

    www.thewarrestore.com
    Last edited by beez2010; 04-29-2011 at 07:24 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Brainerd, MN
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    533

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Made 2 kTBHs and 2 Warre hives this winter/spring. Will be populating 1 warre and 1 TBH. Otherwise hoping for swarms. But this kind of reading excites me, especially how much I read about how good Warres are in cold climates.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Shirley, MA, USA
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    109

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    How do new packages in a single-deep Langstroth compare with an established hive? I've got a new Kenya TBH that is much colder inside than an adjacent Langstroth-- 10 F on average, I'd estimate), and from the first morning has been active earlier, later and in light rain while the Langstroth has been completely quiet. I assumed they were more industrious because of their precarious situation, needing to get comb built and brood going.
    Greg

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Schuylerville, NY
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    28

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Zonker, I couldn't agree more, there should be a Warre Forum. I believe the Warre hive is considered a TBH but nonetheless, it would be nice to have it separate.

    It's great to hear that the colony in the Warre is doing well. This will be my first year beekeeping. I decided to go with a Warre hive after a lot of reading and research. I'm getting my bees from Betterbee, I live just 15 minutes from them, and so far they've been delayed 3 times due to the weather. I'm suppose to pick them up next weekend and I can't wait. I hope you have a great and successful summer!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Clifford Township, PA
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    1,982

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by beez2010 View Post
    Imagine that...

    The bees in the ventilated, uninsulated hives need everyone to stay in the hive and keep the brood warm until the day heats up up more. The Warre is already warm, so many bees can begin to forage early.
    Huh?? Were the bees from a package? Unless the hive was populated from frames from another hive yesterday, how much brood would the Warre hive have the day after installing that would result in any meaningful comparison? If the strong TBH and Langs had bees inside keeping brood warm, it would be because they actually had brood to keep warm. Reminds me of how long it took to start my day when my daughters were small.

    On the other hand, I have some Lang hives that are up and out long before their more laid-back next-door neighbors in identical hives.

    Wayne

    Wayne

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,104

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    When I have no drawn comb I start packages in five frame medium nucs. When I have drawn comb I start them in eight frame medium boxes which are half the size of the ten frame deep. They get started much faster. It takes heat to build comb and raise brood.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,991

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    When the package just got dumped in yesterday, they will be very active the next morning and the next few days, sorting themselves out, whatever kind of hive they are in.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    140

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes View Post
    Zonker, I couldn't agree more, there should be a Warre Forum. I believe the Warre hive is considered a TBH but nonetheless, it would be nice to have it separate.

    <snip>
    Here's a third vote for a Warre specific forum. I find that when people use the term "Top Bar Hive" they are most often referring to a horizontal TBH, like the Kenyan. Since the Warre is a vertical TBH it seems (from what I read) that it would be managed much differently.

    Personally, I'm rather interested in Warre hives (albeit, modified for the use of frames since the law requires it here) and it would be nice to be able to find the information on them all put together in one forum.

    Brian

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    I second the motion to have a Warre hive beekeeping forum. I suggested it to the moderator a while back and, (I am trying to be kind here) received what appeared to be a rather curt reply telling me there was already a Top Bar forum. An excellent site for good Warre information is this group.
    http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/warrebeekeeping

    Ernie
    Last edited by The Honey Girl's Boy; 06-06-2011 at 11:44 AM. Reason: more information

  11. #11
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Warre Hive Forum, okay by me.
    "The Peoples Hive"? Insulting to all others, as if those who use something else aren't "people" or "the people" too.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  12. #12
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    Jul 2009
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    Olympia, WA
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    91

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    "The Peoples Hive"? Insulting to all others, as if those who use something else aren't "people" or "the people" too.
    Interesting observation, I keep bees in Langstroths, Top Bars, Warres and a couple of proto types I built never once thought of being offended by the name of any hive. Emile explained the reason for the name in his book.

  13. #13
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    Jan 2011
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    Brainerd, MN
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    533

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    To me personally it's the people's hive because it has personally allowed me to get into beekeeping. I had looked into beekeeping about a year ago, but crapped my pants at the cost. This winter I was able to build 2 KTBHs and 2 Warre hives. I got into beekeeping for the cost of making a few batches of mead! I have 2 hives running now and will see if I catch a swarm. So to me it's the people's hive because it is something that many can build themselves and get into beekeeping without having a ton of extra cash on hand, especially for the hobby beekeeper. Those who are in it for cash are a different breed and would make more cash from a Lang. Those who are like me and want a couple hives, but don't want a business will do better to make their own hive. Just my POV.

  14. #14
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Yes there is a point about the use of the title "The Peoples Hive", which is rather grandiose.

    Anything carrying the title "The Peoples xxx", implies it is the one of choice, the popular one, the one most people use.

    But using that criterion, Langstroth, would be the undisputed "peoples hive"

    Warré, in his book, may have some explanation why he believes his design is the peoples hive. But to me, the hive people actually use, must be the peoples hive. And that's the Langstroth design.

    Having said all that, I'm in no way offended by the use of the title in regard to a particular design, just think it's a bit ostentatious. However, Warré hive numbers will probably increase, because they are currently such a tiny percentage of the total number of hives that they can only really go up.

    Warré hives are probably a better design from the bees point of view, than the less natural KTBH, and there might be a move away from standard TBH's and towards Warré hives over the next few years. But there are pros and cons both ways. The Warré is more natural and tuned in to the type of shape the bees can do best in, but it in it's pure form, cannot be inspected. And given enough Warrés and enough time, this issue will one day come back to bite. The TBH though allows ready inspection and more intricate hive management, and probably more "hands on" for the beekeeper. But bees find it harder to work out to the long ends and are more inclined to swarm than store a big honey crop.

    The Warré was also designed in a certain part of France, before varroa mites and other afflictions, and management techniques are based on that area. But already, US based Warré devotees are bringing in improved management methods suited variously, to specific local conditions, and design changes which can even include moveable frames.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #15
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    Jan 2011
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    Brainerd, MN
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    533

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    All very valid points. I guess it really depends on how you look at it. I think that the half frames that some build are the answer to the inspection issue, but at the same time complicates the simplicity of the design.

  16. #16
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    W/out removable and inspectable brood combs, in most States, such a hive is Illegal. In case you didn't know. Which may not matter to some, I guess.

    Frames are relatively inexpensive and one can build their own Langstroth type boxes out of scrap lumber. Or, in the case of Tara (I believe) a milk crate and some styrofoam board. Imagination is required, that's all.

    Warre away tho. It's cool. It's all good.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
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    227

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    You all have a totally different take on the "the people's hive" title. I assumed it was a vaguely communist thing. The hive of the downtrodden and oppressed masses. Also I wonder how inspectable a hive needs to be to be considered legal. You can lift the box off and see whats going on, so its certainly more inspectable than a skep. I wonder if there is specific frame by frame language in the law. And ... those laws were to stop the spread of decease but the deceases have already spread everywhere, so the laws didn't really seem to work, so .... etc.

    and sqkcrk is right about building langs. I have built all my langs entirely from scrap (the only langs in VA with hand cut dovetail joinery), but making frames is some pretty tedious wood working and there is still the foundation, wiring, the cap cutting knife, the centrifuge, ect. I think the Comrade Warre hive will produce cheaper honey for me.

  18. #18
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    I first learned of the Laws about removable frames while working at Colonial Williamsburg, in Wmsbg, VA. I no longer have thew VA Handbook of Beekeeping which contained a Chapter on VA Bee Laws, but it stated that removable frames are required for the inspection for AFB and other brood diseases. So, skeps are forbidden. And any other hive, like Log Gums, are too. Warres? I don't know. ask your State Apiculturalist. Or, maybe, don't.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  19. #19
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    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
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    227

    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    I'm always amazed at how often I miss the obvious and sqkcrk you're right, getting the real info is an obvious first step. So I checked out the VA code and the only requirement is "§ 3.2-4410. Measures to eradicate and control bee diseases; appeal. A. The State Apiarist shall examine or inspect the bees in the Commonwealth whenever they are suspected of being infected with bee diseases and, on request, shall inspect bees to be sold or to be transported interstate." and in the administrative code a declaration that there are suppose to be regulations but none have been developed. So I'm thinking that I could do whatever I want as long I'm ok with the hive being destroyed anytime the apiarist suspects I have diseases in them.

  20. #20
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonker View Post
    I have built all my langs entirely from scrap (the only langs in VA with hand cut dovetail joinery), but making frames is some pretty tedious wood working and there is still the foundation, wiring, the cap cutting knife, the centrifuge, ect.
    I might be NEARLY able to top that!

    My very first frames were built by hand when I was a schoolboy, in the school woodwork shop. That was before I had any bees and had never seen a frame, just took the design from a book. The woodwork teacher was NOT impressed and would not even grade it, told me no more beehive stuff, he wanted something "useful" built.

    I actually wish I still had that first hive, it would be a curiousity now, a completely handcrafted 4 frame hive, each frame slightly different, and approaching 50 years old.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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