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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I have some comb builders also.I feed them and when the get some new some frames drawn I pull them and let the bees clean the syrup out and then put the combs in a box to store.The wax moths dont bother them like the do brood combs.When I need a frame or two they are there.I do it here at the house so I dont get any robbing started down at the apiary.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    roswell, georgia, USA
    Posts
    720

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    It takes a lot of effort and resources for bees to draw foundation.
    EAS Georgia Certified. "Tradition - Even if you have done it the same way for years doesn't mean that it is not stupid."

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,809

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Keep in mind, though, that having drawn comb means you have a resource that is very perishable. The best place for drawn comb is on a growing hive so they can guard it and use it. If you try to hoard it you'll end up raising wax moths instead of bees...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Drain, OR
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Are wax moths regional or everywhere? I'm glad I haven't seen them yet...
    A backyard hobbyist, keeping hives since '09. ~ http://www.sweetthangchocolates.com
    Zone 8a/8b

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,809

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Wax moths are endemic. Anywhere honey bees live, wax moths live. They are seasonal in areas with hard winter freezes. Here I don't see many until late June or July
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Limestone Co, Alabama
    Posts
    1,674

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyMM View Post
    ... I got some drawn comb from someone this year and noticed some bugs in it... I wound up scraping all of them clean...
    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I frequently bust out all my drawn comb if it had been off the hive for more then a few weeks...
    In his book Keeping Bees & Selling Honey, an old beekeeper some of you may have heard of, Walter T. Kelley, claimed that drawn comb was very valuable. WTK also claimed that he and others were currently using 40 plus year old drawn combs.

    Yes, WT Kelley & co was selling frames then too, so Kelley was cutting his own throat in a way by not promoting new equipment, foundation, hardware, & frame sales. Go figure.
    Scrapfe---Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.--Otto von Bismarck.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapfe View Post
    In his book Keeping Bees & Selling Honey, an old beekeeper some of you may have heard of, Walter T. Kelley, claimed that drawn comb was very valuable.
    I learned the craft from "old beekeepers", Much of it I had to learn over over the years.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Livingston County, NY
    Posts
    516

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    3pages of replies & 600+ views since yesterday. I think you hit a mutual concern, one that older beeks know & us diaper dandies (to borrow a phrase)are learning fast.
    I have posted a cpl of times asking how to ramp up the inventory of drawn frames. It's seems that when someone poses a question, instead of getting resolutions, there is a lot of comiserating without brainstorming.
    So far the best resolution that I see is the swarm catch that is the wax drawing machine. Putting undrawn in strong hives. I hope to catch a lot of swarms this year & I'm spending a lot of time researching the strategies for higher success @ catching them.
    Anybody have an opinion about spraying sugar water, HFCS, honey on undrawn frames to get the bees to accept & clean them & draw them out quicker? I have heard that it takes a 7:1 ratio of nectar to wax. What & how they are fed obviously will be key to rapid production.
    I will be buying hives from my mentors estate, & I have considered buying extra drawn frames. I am hesitant b/c he treated for everything. I haven't seen any reason to think that there is harmful residue, though I want to be as certain as not to do more harm than good, so is there a way or need to "sterilize" frames from hives that have been medicated (formic acid, tylosin, fumigilin,etc.)??
    Just trying to initiate brainstorming, necessity is the mother of innovation. Expansion, healthy, time efficient expansion takes planning. What say you?
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN, USA
    Posts
    1,398

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    It didn't take me long, first year and first nectar flow to realize the importance of drawn comb. Seeing the beeks with more years under their belt pulling in honey and I was just eeking by with my bees drawing comb just to keep up with the needs for brood growth. I have mentioned more than once here and at our local meetings that comb is more valuable than bees. If you have a deadout you can get more bees and they have a big jump start.

    I am talking more about honey comb than brood comb. If you have to start over from a deadout after the first year you can still get some of the nectar flow by adding the honey comb frames. You can also use the brood comb frames for honey or a quicker start up. I don't use all of a box of brood frames when starting a new colony. I use only 50% brood frames and 50% foundation checkerboarded. Gives them a start and they can't stand empty frames so they build them out quickly.
    De Colores,
    Ken

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,613

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Growing Boy View Post
    How come nowhere in all the newbie books I have read do the authors address the importance and/or usefulness of having extra frames of drawn comb. A lot of them.
    So, for someone starting out, how important is it?
    Who are you going to buy it from?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,613

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapfe View Post
    Yes, WT Kelley & co was selling frames then too, so Kelley was cutting his own throat in a way by not promoting new equipment, foundation, hardware, & frame sales. Go figure.
    Mr. Kelley was a very progressive and thoughtful person whose business ideas were somewhat different from many. The first guy I ever heard of who did profit sharing down to the last person hired, way back in the 1980s and probably before.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Michael is right about the wax moths.Those things will rip you on your stored combs.Thats the reason I store only the fresh drawn stuff because the wax worms love the cocoons the bees make in the brood combs.The darker it is the better the wax worms like it.I also use BT on my combs and frames.They will eat your frames up also if you let them.I will make up a little BT in a pan and dip the whole frames and let dry and then they are ready for the foundation and to be put in the hive.I dont usually spray the foundation right then unless it is meant to stay with the hive.When the frames are pulled out and the bees take the syrup from the comb then I will spray with BT before I store them.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    The reason I posed the question was because Imirie stresses over and over again that a first year hive has 2 goals. Creating enough stores and drawing frames of comb. That's why he reccomends feeding as long as you can. The next year when you are in a position to actually harvest something you have a head start. The bees aren't using nectar drawing comb they're storing it. He also reccomends supering up all at once in his case 4 boxes as the bees will be storing nectar faster than they can evaporate the water out of it to produce the honey. But I'm not getting that conversation started. His emphasis is on 2 things. Maximizing honey production and swarm prevention which in his mind go hand in hand. To me he makes a lot of sense. Just sayin.http://pinkpages.chrisbacherconsulting.com/

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Livingston County, NY
    Posts
    516

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Keep in mind, though, that having drawn comb means you have a resource that is very perishable. The best place for drawn comb is on a growing hive so they can guard it and use it. If you try to hoard it you'll end up raising wax moths instead of bees...
    Michael how do you store, and do you spray drawn comb w/anything? Is there a way to entice to clean & draw out faster? Sugar spray, HFCS spray, Honey brush on thinnly?

    Snapper, What is BT?
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Cashmere, WA, USA
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    None of the books I've seen cover all the bases. That's why you need about 10 of them, they're all different. When Michael Bush writes his, it will be the best

    lakebilly: Bt = Bacillus thurigingiensis, a bacterial bioinsecticide that is pretty effective against several insects groups including waxmoths when stored comb is sprayed with it. Also produced in GM crops.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Thuracide is Bt. Thats the Ortho name I use.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Livingston County, NY
    Posts
    516

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    After M.Palmer finishes his book & M. Bush finishes his(prod there) I will have eleven. I'd like to think that will do it. M.Bush is the one that has fielded many a newbee question, & I wouldn't bee surprised if he wrote a book....holding the hand & spoonfeeding newbees...or something like that.

    OK who's usin the BT napalm & what's so good/bad about it?
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Well the good is it will kill the wax moth larvae.You will know they have been there by seeing a little line where they have started and then a tiny larvae lying dead and all your combs still in real good shape.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tulsa OK. USA
    Posts
    846

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    The thing to remember is that DRAWN COMB often falls under USED EQUIPMENT and most bee keepers and newbie books tell you not to trust used equipment because of possible disease/pest transfer and then to its a golden asset and not many willingly get rid of it. Jim
    Stop and smell the flowers, 50,000 ladies can't be wrong
    Bsweetapiary@aol.com

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OKC, OK USA
    Posts
    2,869

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Well, just got me a comb drawing machine off of a fellers fence (camera broke..no picts) and I am going to see how they do with my first ever foundationless frames. I will peek in tomorrow to see how things are progressing, properly space all the frames, and install the inner cover!! There were literally dozens of bee's doing the wiggle dance on the swarm.
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

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