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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default I have a complaint!

    How come nowhere in all the newbie books I have read do the authors address the importance and/or usefulness of having extra frames of drawn comb. A lot of them.
    Including this info, when and how to use them would solve a lot of newbie problems.IMHO.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Jefferson County, Texas, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I have heard from experienced beekeepers that it's great for getting new hives started, etc. However, I read an article today in "Bee Culture" that was asking the question could reusing drawn comb be spreading disease? I think in recent years this has become a concern. From what I'm reading I wonder if some authors are withholding some of the "contreversial" stuff especially in books that are teaching the "basics". I'm new to the whole thing but I pondered the drawn comb thing today. I got some drawn comb from someone this year and noticed some bugs in it and an experienced guy showed me wax moth damage and where some other bug had been up to no good in the cells. I wound up scraping all of them clean and throwing the wax away. Just some things to think about.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    North East, OH
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Not may newbies would have drawn comb,

    I remember when I was a newbie, one book talked about using drawn comb and sticking the queen cell into it. I remember thinking what the hell is drawn comb and I don't have any so why is he talking about it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I frequently bust out all my drawn comb if it had been off the hive for more then a few weeks. I don't like making my bees clean old comb. and if you store it for the winter it gets all trashed anyway.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I was going through George Imirie's Pink pages and he stresses drawn comb production. In fact he reccomends feeding first year hives 24/7 for 4 months.

    "Ask one of the "good old boys" or even one of the socalled "beekeepers" that are everywhere today, and you will get a bad assortment of answers, ranging from 1 pint, or feed up to the real nectar flow, or feed up to hot weather, or feeding is not necessary after April 15th. WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP!

    You are building a brand new colony, and trying to get 30 or 40 frames of foundation drawn into DRAWN COMB. There is NO WAY that bees are going to accomplish your desires unless they get a lot of CONTINUOUS feeding of 1:1 sugar syrup. which is artificial nectar. You feed continuously until about LABOR DAY, and then switch the feed to HEAVY syrup, 2 pounds of sugar dissolved into just 1 pint of water. "

    I can see advantages to having some around especially during a good flow.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Again from the Pink Pages-"Remember my saying: Drawn comb is a beekeeper's most valuable possession! "

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Glencoe, Okla USA
    Posts
    310

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I am going to suggest you read the beekeeping suggestions of Michael Bush at: Bushfarms.com, he has an online reference that pretty much covers anything you will need to know. Randy Oliver has an online website that is well worth the read. Between these two you will get most of your questions answered. Randys website address is:http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OKC, OK USA
    Posts
    2,870

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    One of the best ways to get drawn comb is to hive swarms on foundation and not on drawn comb, they are comb building machines!! As far as constant feeding goes....I don't feed my bee's and they build comb just fine.
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Myron Denny View Post
    I am going to suggest you read the beekeeping suggestions of Michael Bush at: Bushfarms.com, he has an online reference that pretty much covers anything you will need to know. Randy Oliver has an online website that is well worth the read. Between these two you will get most of your questions answered. Randys website address is:http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com/
    Thanks for the links. I've been through Michael's site in great detail.
    Lot's of really good information. Havn't spent quite as much time at Randy's. I don't really have that many questions. I just see the value of having drawn comb around. I've got a swarm making me up some right now. My only real question was why it's never mentioned anywhere else?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OKC, OK USA
    Posts
    2,870

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I just see the value of having drawn comb around.
    I agree with you 100%
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cullman Co., AL
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Well GB, it looks like you answered you own question, with the exception of "why newer books do not discuss the attributes of having drawn comb". Most likely because new keeps don't have any drawn comb to work with!
    I guess i am one of the "good ole boys", as you say, been at it for 37 years. Started like most with a couple of hives and built up to a pole building full of supers with drawn comb. Its handy for supering, splits, nucs, whatever you need. But remember we are also replacing two frames per box every year to cull old comb.
    Just foundation, the bees will draw it out. We feed with a 55 gallon drum in the middle of the yard during winter, but when a flows on it does not matter, they wont touch the feed. We also store all of our comb during the winter with no issues.

    Look at bushfarms.com or go to Grant" profile on this site. He sells some good e-books and has some free info on his site as well. As far as books go, stay away from all the dummy/newer stuff. Look uo Dr Richard Taylor (Everything you need to know about beekeeping), and get a copy of the (Hive and the Honey Bee).

    And best of all, find a good mentor!

    Kind regards
    Stonefly7

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifford Township, PA
    Posts
    2,064

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I frequently bust out all my drawn comb if it had been off the hive for more then a few weeks.
    If you have no disease, I'll bet there are any number of local beekeepers that would take drawn comb off your hands rather than see a valuable asset trashed.

    I'm sure you have your reasons. My bees clean old comb just fine and the comb I store over winter doesn't seem to get itself trashed.

    Wayne

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,732

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I guess the answer may lay in the ability of the more experienced beekeepers to promote rapid population growth, and therefore to work with only foundation. They therefore do not worry so much about having drawn comb. We often start packages on only foundation, if good weather is predicted, and the dandelions are blooming. It is fun to see the queen lay eggs in a cell that has just been started.

    Crazy Roland

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cullman Co., AL
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Better said Roland ,Thanks. We even have drums in the nuc yards.

    Wayne, I did not get that either!

    Kind regards
    Stonefly7

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonefly7 View Post
    Well GB, it looks like you answered you own question, with the exception of "why newer books do not discuss the attributes of having drawn comb". Most likely because new keeps don't have any drawn comb to work with!
    I guess i am one of the "good ole boys", as you say, been at it for 37 years. Started like most with a couple of hives and built up to a pole building full of supers with drawn comb. Its handy for supering, splits, nucs, whatever you need. But remember we are also replacing two frames per box every year to cull old comb.
    Just foundation, the bees will draw it out. We feed with a 55 gallon drum in the middle of the yard during winter, but when a flows on it does not matter, they wont touch the feed. We also store all of our comb during the winter with no issues.

    Look at bushfarms.com or go to Grant" profile on this site. He sells some good e-books and has some free info on his site as well. As far as books go, stay away from all the dummy/newer stuff. Look uo Dr Richard Taylor (Everything you need to know about beekeeping), and get a copy of the (Hive and the Honey Bee).

    And best of all, find a good mentor!

    Kind regards
    I've got so many good mentors here in East Texas I can't begin to count them. I had a really good one 40 years ago.
    Again, my only question was why the benefits of having frames of drawn comb aren't covered in newbie books. Obviously the reason is that it's going to be almost overwhelming just to keep your hives alive the first year why muddy up the newbies brain with the concept of anticipating your hives needs. It's the same way with the supply houses selling kits comprised of about half of what you most likely will need the first year. Folks are set up to fail. I'm doing fine. Just asking a question.
    Oh, I didn't say you we're a good old boy. George Imirie did. After 70 years of beekeeping he could say whatever he wanted to.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OKC, OK USA
    Posts
    2,870

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Dr Richard Taylor (Everything you need to know about beekeeping),
    One of my most prized possessions!! No longer in print. I was looking at mine the other day thinking I need to vacuum pack it or something to preserve it.
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cullman Co., AL
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Yea,Mike, I also have his Comb honey book, and the Joys of beekeeping. National Treasures for sure. I find a lot of stuff at thrift stores. i pick up duplicate copies whenever I can. Also Frank pellet 1924? Honey plants of North America.

    Glad your set up GB. There's also some National Treasures in East TX. Gene,Tom,Laura, etc. Good luck with the girls.

    Kind regards
    Stonefly7

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Columbia county, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,535

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Growing Boy View Post
    Again, my only question was why the benefits of having frames of drawn comb aren't covered in newbie books. Obviously the reason is that it's going to be almost overwhelming just to keep your hives alive the first year why muddy up the newbies brain with the concept of anticipating your hives needs. It's the same way with the supply houses selling kits comprised of about half of what you most likely will need the first year. Folks are set up to fail. I'm doing fine. Just asking a question.
    Maybe not everyone is in an area where they can build up drawn comb as early in the season as you, and maybe they need two full deeps for brood boxes in their colder winters.
    Last year I got two nucs from GA at the end of April, fed them syrup until they stopped taking it (which was about two weeks later, once the nectar started they totally ignored my syrup). It then took them til end of May to fill the 10 frame deep, til mid July to fill the second deep, and then by August they started to build on the foundation in the honey super I put on, but trailed off on comb building even though they were raising lots of brood and storing honey in the brood boxes too. Then it got chilly in Sept so i removed the super and stored it for the next year, not wanting to leave it on top of the hive half empty for the winter. Thus, they both went from their 5 frame nuc to a 20 frame full vigorous hive for winter...but still no 'extra' drawn frames to be had.
    A year later I do now have some extra comb frames, but I no longer need to be told that it's good to have them by my beginner book. ;D
    I think most beginners simply don't get any extra frames of comb drawn during their first year. Others are lucky and also have longer seasons.
    The little bee returns with evening's gloom,
    To join her comrades in the braided hive... -Tennyson

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Gilmer,TX USA
    Posts
    1,830

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonefly7 View Post
    Yea,Mike, I also have his Comb honey book, and the Joys of beekeeping. National Treasures for sure. I find a lot of stuff at thrift stores. i pick up duplicate copies whenever I can. Also Frank pellet 1924? Honey plants of North America.

    Glad your set up GB. There's also some National Treasures in East TX. Gene,Tom,Laura, etc. Good luck with the girls.

    Kind regards
    Yep...Tom (guess you mean flyman) and the others are really good folks....I know Gene through a local forum...good folks...
    mike
    Please check out the new kingfisherapiaries.com!
    Like us on Facebook

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OKC, OK USA
    Posts
    2,870

    Default Re: I have a complaint!

    I think most beginners simply don't get any extra frames of comb drawn during their first year.
    With all the dead outs reported I would say a lot of them have some at the beginning of their second year...8(
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

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