View Poll Results: What is the definition of Treatment, Treatment-Free, or Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

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  • Treatment: A substance placed by the beekeeper into the hive or caused by the beekeeper to be consumed by the bees, with the intent of killing or inhibiting a pest or disease within the hive or afflicting the bees.

    11 27.50%
  • Treatment: Anything done or added to a hive to improve conditions within the hive, such as feeding, swarm prevention, pest control.

    0 0%
  • Treatment-Free Beekeeping: There is no treatment free beekeeping. Any manipulations, (pharmacologically or physically), that alter the natural biological status quo of the inner workings of a colony of bees can be considered a treatment.

    3 7.50%
  • Treatment: anything done to a hive, short of putting bees in it, intended to in any way affect the health or longevity of the colony.

    1 2.50%
  • Treatment: Applying or feeding some substance to either kill or repel parasites or treat disease.

    7 17.50%
  • Treatment: Any human interaction with the bees, after they are hived, has an effect on the course of the hive, and therefore is a treatment.

    0 0%
  • Treatment: The application or use of any substance for the purpose of reducing, altering or effecting a disease, pest or nutritional deficit.

    1 2.50%
  • Treatment: The management and care of a patient or the combating of disease or disorder. Thus, treatment free beekeeping is: The management practice of allowing bees to combat disease or disorder without beekeeper intervention.

    5 12.50%
  • Treatment-Free Beekeeping: The beekeeper allows the bees to manage the mites without any input from the beekeeper, other than breeding. Thus no "hard", "soft", essential oils, fogging, etc. activities.

    6 15.00%
  • Treatment-Free Beekeeping: Management of colonies in removable frame equipment in such a manner as to not purposefully allow introduction of any substance other than what bees are able to gather or produce from naturally occurring sources.

    6 15.00%
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  1. #1
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    Default What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Here is the poll made of the definitions submitted over the last few weeks. There could only be ten, so some that were very similar were combined or eliminated. Some needed to be edited because they were too long. Sorry if I cut something important.

    Please vote on your favorite. Votes are public.
    Last edited by Solomon Parker; 04-01-2011 at 03:30 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Where? I don't see it.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Sorry, it took a minute partially because your submission was too long and I had to edit it.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    I think #1 could be worded better, but it's closest to what I'd define as treatment.
    Regards, Barry

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    What's the difference between 1 and 5?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Original wording of 5. It was too long, so I had to remove the details.

    Treatment: Applying or feeding some substance to either kill or repel parasites or treat disease. This includes such things as formic acid, oxalic, obvious pesticides, fungicides and miticides, antibiotics and other medications, sugar shakes, mineral oil applications, or using strong essential oils (including thymol) as a mite treatment. Feeding, nutritional supplements, requeening, drone culling, checker-boarding, splitting, queen excluders, grafting, foundation use, frame swapping, honey extraction, etc. are not treatments.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    What is the difference between 3 and 6?

    Crazy Roland

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Doesn't the Title of the Survey ask for definitions of three different terms?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    It does Mark, and all the choices address those different terms. Do you like to approach it by defining what treatment-free is, or do you prefer to define what a treatment is? Several ways to arrive at the same point.
    Regards, Barry

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    So, I guess by choosing a def for one you are byu default choosing a def for another? What ever works.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Precisely. I asked for definitions for "treatment" and we got all manner of definitions. So the best thing to do is accommodate everyone's views, even those who don't believe in the premise.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  12. #12
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredForStereo View Post
    Original wording of 5. It was too long, so I had to remove the details.

    Treatment: Applying or feeding some substance to either kill or repel parasites or treat disease. This includes such things as formic acid, oxalic, obvious pesticides, fungicides and miticides, antibiotics and other medications, sugar shakes, mineral oil applications, or using strong essential oils (including thymol) as a mite treatment. Feeding, nutritional supplements, requeening, drone culling, checker-boarding, splitting, queen excluders, grafting, foundation use, frame swapping, honey extraction, etc. are not treatments.
    But doesn't #1 also cover all the above?
    I still don't see a difference between #1 and #5, but I guess that not too important since they both seem to say the same thing to me. I voted for #1 though I could have easily voted #5 I suppose.
    The little bee returns with evening's gloom,
    To join her comrades in the braided hive... -Tennyson

  13. #13
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Yes, but they are different even though they are similar. Remember, these are submissions, I didn't make them up. Leaving some out because they are similar could be misconstrued, so it's best to let it ride.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #14
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    I voted for the last....it best discribes my view.
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  15. #15
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Ok, so there are now several threads about various people's definitions of treatment-free, plus now this poll.
    Does this all mean there is going to be a consensus of some sort concerning the definition that will be used in this forum? Or maybe that wasn't the goal?
    I'm a little confused.
    Another thought- I do think it might be good to tighten up the forum description just a bit- it's somewhat long, legal-sounding and redundant, isn't it?...
    Discussion of information and application concerning the keeping of bees and production of honey using biological methodology. We seek to understand how the bees operate biologically and then formulate management methods that cooperate, as much as possible, with the bees biology without resorting to the use of chemicals and drugs.
    How about? something more like simply:
    Discussing and formulating honeybee management methods that cooperate as much as possible with natural bee biology without resorting to the use of chemicals and drugs.
    just a thought.
    Last edited by Omie; 04-03-2011 at 10:19 PM.
    The little bee returns with evening's gloom,
    To join her comrades in the braided hive... -Tennyson

  16. #16
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Seems to be a lot of splitting of hairs. So I opted for doing anything to a hive is a treatment. So the fact that you would add a queen, a frame of honey, a package, a frame of brood or anything to the hive would of course disrupt the the bees and be considered treatment...so other than observing a feral hive in the wild, everyone treats no matter what they claim. (in the purest sense of course)
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid. John Wayne

  17. #17
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omie View Post
    Does this all mean there is going to be a consensus of some sort concerning the definition that will be used in this forum?
    Yes, that is precisely the point. The purpose is to have an official definition for the purpose of the forum. It seems at times that those who are not treatment free are those who consider everything done in the hive a treatment. On the other hand, it seems most who are treatment free consider treatments as substances and the rest as manipulations. There needs to be a definition, "this is what we mean by treatment free, period." That way we can get past all the arguments about what is/isn't. I hope we're already working getting past the for/against arguments.

    Your definition reads pretty good. But that's not my department.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  18. #18
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    From a related thread:

    These purist treatment vs. treatment free arguments are over in this forum, enough arguing. Accept what is, and let it go.
    It's time to "Accept what is, and let go".
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  19. #19
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    I find it interesting that those who treat and want to be treatment free change the definition. You can call it manipulation, but that is intervention and intervention in the medical sense is considered a treatment. Look it up. That's how I came by my conclusion, not because I am not "treatment free." If you are looking for the true definition of treatment free than you can't ignore the use of the words you are using. If the goal is to be substance free and allow manipulations than perhaps a better title is needed, like Substance Free Beekeeping. This would allow manipulations as a management tool and dis-allow the introduction of any foreign substance to treat or feed the bees.
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid. John Wayne

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What is Treatment-Free Beekeeping?

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha6 View Post
    You can call it manipulation, but that is intervention and intervention in the medical sense is considered a treatment. Look it up... If you are looking for the true definition of treatment free than you can't ignore the use of the words you are using.
    But maybe we are not looking for a definition 'in the medical sense'. The medical field by its very nature is pretty much all about 'treatment', isn't it?
    If one considers all manipulations to be treatments (as in the medical sense you describe) then there is no such thing as treatment free beekeeping at all- because even the very act of putting bees in a box is a 'treatment' or intervention then, regardless of whether you use 'substances'.
    The little bee returns with evening's gloom,
    To join her comrades in the braided hive... -Tennyson

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