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  1. #121
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    Feb 2007
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    Lincolnton, NC
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    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    Ted,

    I tried to find info on Peter Petrovich. Nothing came up on google or wikopedia. How can I find information about him?

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Cullman Co., AL
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    196

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    I think he's talking about the Prokopovych Beekeeping Institute in the Ukraine.

    Kind regards
    Stonefly7

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    1,163

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    Yes, Tim is right. You have to google the Ukrainian spelling not the Russian spelling of the man's name. His name is Peter Prokopivych. He operated up to 10,000 colonies of bees around 1810 if my memory is correct, in the first movable frame colonies that had bee space!! Sorry for the mistake in language. I speak Russian not Ukrainian, though many of the words are very close in sound and spelling. That is why I also have Natasha along to translate when I travel there. TK

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,456

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    I hear ya Ted, I just hate it when I get my Russian and Ukranian words confused.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chippew County, WI, USA
    Posts
    650

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not


  6. #126
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    1,163

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    Wi, what did you learn about the man? Pretty interesting beekeeper, huh?? TED

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    hamilton city, new zealand
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    172

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    There are a few videos about Carpathian bees in youtube. Type in "Apis Mellifera Carpatica" and it should come up.

    They look very similar to carniolans in the videos

  8. #128
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    Feb 2011
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    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    1,163

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    basically it is a variation of carniolians due to the ecosytem it has adapted to. This bee is VSH and highly hygenic in its housecleaning abilities. You will see very little detritus on the bottom of the hive in a colony headed by Carpathian bees. Like Russell has said the wrong bee -primorsky bees-was selected for resistance to Varroa. There were two other good races of bees that show a lot of promise for resistance that were overlooked. They are the Carpathian bee and the Mnt Gray Caucasian bee. TK

  9. #129
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    Feb 2007
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    Lincolnton, NC
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    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    Tell me if I have the history correct:
    Varroa have lived with Apis Cerana for thousands of years in east Asia. Because of mountains, deserts and frozen tundra, Apis Melifera and Apis Cerana had not come into contact with each other for thousands of years. Russians pioneers took Melifera with them when they moved into east Asia 150 or so years ago. Varroa, of course, invaded the Melifera that had been brought to east Asia(Primorsky region). Most of the hives died of varroa, but some survived and then thrived in that area. Many years later beekeepers brought some hives from Primosky back to western Russian. The varroa that came with them invaded the Melifera hives and from there spread to the rest of Europe, Africa and the Americas reeking havoc as they spread. The reason Primorsky bees were used to breed from for resistance to varroa is because they had been in contact (and survived well) for 150 years.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,585

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    Pretty close... the original stocks were actually Ukrainian bees that were being transported in backpacks and carts through the primorsky region while the Russians escorted the Ukrainians away from Russia. The Cerana has long adapted to varroa and are virtually not effected by them... the primorsky region is just outside of the livable boundaries of Cerana, during the late summer, the bees (Cerana and Ukrainian) met during foraging... thus the jump from Cerana to Mellifera... the Mellifera would have been easily wiped out if it were not for the terrible winters and short spurts of flow... thus breaking the brood cycle over and over and allowing the Ukrainian bees to adapt to multiple swarming while killing varroa over the winter... this climate and situation was much like a treated apiary today... in the fact that varroa levels were kept in check by something other than just the bees...

    The spread of varroa into Russia was mostly due to the growth of the countries agriculture further towards the primorsky region... the Russians do not keep primorsky bees and actually look at them as "junk bees" for their excessive swarming and tiny clusters.

    The largest spread of varroa on Mellifera came from the Philippines. Where both species were kept side by side.

    Hope this helps.

  11. #131
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    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,585

    Big Grin Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    I may should add that several strains of varroa exist across the globe... each one is an adaptation to its surroundings. Type (r), (j), and (ng) are the most noted, but current studies are showing that their adaptations are much more extensive and so many variations may actually exist.

    This is important to keep in mind because as your bees are adapting, so are the mites... in time, the adaptation of the bees and mites alike may be able to move varroa from the destructor class, back to the parasite class, like has happened with Cerana... after all, it is the unbalance of both mite and Mellifera that causes them to destroy their hosts completely... not much good for their species either if all the bees are gone.

    Just something to think about...

  12. #132
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    Feb 2007
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    Lincolnton, NC
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    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    This is important to keep in mind because as your bees are adapting, so are the mites... in time, the adaptation of the bees and mites alike may be able to move varroa from the destructor class, back to the parasite class, like has happened with Cerana... after all, it is the unbalance of both mite and Mellifera that causes them to destroy their hosts completely... not much good for their species either if all the bees are gone.

    Just something to think about...
    2 questions:
    Where did the destructor class originate? Were they with Cerana or did they adapt as they came into contact with Melifera?

    If destructor moved into an area of Melifera that were never treated, would they die out quickly (along with most bees) leaving only the parasite class that would balance?

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chippew County, WI, USA
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    650

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    "Wi, what did you learn about the man? Pretty interesting beekeeper, huh?? TED"

    I learned that its pretty hard to find much literature on someone from Russia.

    I would love to read some of his writings. He supposedly has around 60 articles published. I will be looking some more. I am sure his ideas and thoughts must be interesting. I would like to know how he made increase for one, if he reared queens, etc.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    hamilton city, new zealand
    Posts
    172

    Default Re: Resistant bees, productive or not

    I searched the internet the past few days to see pictures of the different races of bees which has been discussed in the forum.

    Most of the bees such as Carpathian, Macedonian, Ukranian, Russian, Cecropian and Bulgarian all looked pretty much the same as typical Carniolan. All had large dark body with grey to silver hair covering the body.

    I guess it will be very hard to distingush them by visual examination only.

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