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  1. #61
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omie View Post
    Sure I would (if I was selling honey)- i'd be fine with that as long as EVERYONE's honey was tested, and not just singling me out. Like I suggested before, I'd be labeling my honey simply as "Raw natural local honey. No pesticides or medications are applied to our bees or hives".
    Other than if you, the producer, tests your honey, when do you suppose anyone would test, or cause to be tested, the honey you produce? Unless it is to verify certification? Which is usually a requirement of a certifying agency, such as NOFA.

    Otherwise, the only reason NYS Ag&Mkts would have your honey tested is if there were a problem in which someone got sick.

    I really seriously suggest any labeling should tell what is in the jar and not what is not in the jar. I can understand that one might think that it a good idea to explain everything that might be asked, but why bring the suggestion and make people wonder?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  2. #62
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Lots of folks do and they walk around alive alot longer than if they didn't.
    If it makes you happy then by all means. Just keep in mind that today's pill society is totally unnecessary. Eat right and exercise and you don't need these pills.

    I know the science, and as much as I support that organics are much healthier option than the processed foods most people can afford, the fact remains, organics are not affordable!
    I am serious Michele. You got a cell phone, right, what does that cost per month. Food is the smallest portion of a family budget. The average person pays more for entertainment than I ever paid for a mortgage.

    If you are going to buy all organic ingredients then what is your objection to buying organic pasta? Isn't it the same?

    Buying local is great but you could be buying the same GMO, chemically treated food that you can buy in the grocery store unless you know what the farmer is doing.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    I really seriously suggest any labeling should tell what is in the jar and not what is not in the jar.
    What is in the jar is normally a requirement what is not in the jar is marketing.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Apple Valley, MN
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    375

    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Acebird,

    Well, you shot yourself in the foot again not understanding my point (organic food... pasta? You lost me)

    BTW/ My friend doesn't own a cell phone, she lives with the basics as sustainably as she and her family can afford. She doesn't even have internet or cable. There are quite a few families in MN living that way, it is quite the movement. Most would prefer getting their own produce through gardening then breaking the bank on organics from the store. I recently met a man in northern MN that lives off grid, no cell, no phone, no t.v. If he eats organic I missed that part since he fed me and my family non-organic food when he cooked us breakfast.

    Yes, I own a cell phone and as I already told you, I buy organic and could afford to buy it 100% of the time but choose not to. If my kids want a candy bar or a burger at the fair, I don't insist on organic. BUT that isn't true for everyone. My mother raised two daughters by herself on $9,000 a year, we had no phone, no car, my mother walked to work 6 days a week. There are mothers like that in 2011 as well. If you seriously believe people can't afford organics because they spend too much time on entertainment and other unnecessary items, your misguided. Spend more time trying to understand ALL people from different economic backgrounds and less time reading scientific journals on organics and such and you might learn something.

    Eating right and exercising doesn't always keep a person pill free. Genetics play a huge role in health, you might want to read the science on that one

    You might also try talking to your local farmers. You might learn to trust a few and you'll also learn that several of them already are organic, they just can't afford to meet the USDA certification program. I'd much rather buy local from a farmer I trust than organic products from out of state.
    ~Michelle

  5. #65
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    I'd much rather buy local from a farmer I trust than organic products from out of state.
    So would I but if you go to a local farmer and he tells you Organics is bunk then it pretty much tells you what he is doing and not doing. That is all I am saying.

    [QUOTE][Genetics play a huge role in health/QUOTE]

    Not as much as you think. I will rephrase my comment. For the majority of the population you can avoid the later years pill therapy that is common today with good food and exercise. There will always be some that are outside the bell shaped curve. Those would be the ones that can smoke, drink and take risk and still live to 100 and those that do everything right and die in their forties.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #66
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    Mar 2010
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    Apple Valley, MN
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    375

    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    I'm curious where your data comes from on genetics. You say "not as much as I think." Can you back that up with resources. I've studied quite a bit on genetics and I've not found any scientific data to back up your claim that genetics doesn't play a HUGE role in human health. I didn't say it played the SOLE role in human health, just a huge role.

    You stated:

    today's pill society is totally unnecessary. Eat right and exercise and you don't need these pills.

    Maybe you should rephrase that to "eat right and exercise and you might not need those pills." Because genetics DO play a role. Ask anyone who exercises routinely and eats well, they have heart attacks and strokes too

    I've not met a farmer I trusted that told me organics were bunk.
    ~Michelle

  7. #67
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    Feb 2011
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    dadeville, alabama, USA
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    1,163

    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    As I have written earlier in the thread. To be certified "organic Honey" it will have to go to a labratory, public or private for analysis and certification. But after reading through the thread, it seems that there is no such thing as organic is the consensus. SO if that is the case then all of us must then strive to produce as clean and pure a product that we can. Produce honey in as clean and sanitary condition as possible. Thus we can all further the good name and wholesumness of honey to the consumer. TK (Souix member)

  8. #68
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    SO if that is the case then all of us must then strive to produce as clean and pure a product that we can.
    That's the best plan.

    Ask anyone who exercises routinely and eats well, they have heart attacks and strokes too
    Eventually you will die of something but if you are trying to say that exercise and food are not directly associated with health problems then it is you who needs to learn something.

    Most farmers do not use organic practices. That is it part I would like to go back to because there was a time when most farmers did practice organic farming. It is not the practice that causes the prices to be high it is because only a few are doing it. If every farm was doing it the price increase would not be over 15% instead of the two and three times the cost of the cheap food. Gasoline can increase by 15% in a week and nobody's revolting yet. Some people pay more for gas then they do for food! They are not going to give up their wheels they will just look for cheaper food. And then pay the price later.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #69
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    Mar 2010
    Location
    Apple Valley, MN
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    375

    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Acebird,

    "if you are trying to say that exercise"

    Where did I say that exercise and eating healthy doesn't improve health? Don't assume what I'm trying to say because so far you've been way off base.

    You were the one who said "today's pill society is totally unnecessary. Eat right and exercise and you don't need these pills." Implying that all it takes is exercise and eating organics to be healthy.

    Again, you need to socialize more and stop seeing the world as purely black and white (as all your previous statements suggest you do) and you would learn that older people aren't the only ones dying of strokes and heart attacks.

    I'm sure your stance on exercise and eating right being the link to all good health would be interesting to my friend who had brain surgery after her 2nd child was born. She was 30 yrs old at the time. She spends 5 days a week at Lifetime fitness and eats healthier than anyone I know.

    Where did I say MOST farmers do use organic practices. I said a lot of farmers follow organic practices but are unable to be certified due to cost. A PROVEN FACT!!!

    Thank you for proving my point about organics for me. If there had been more allowances by the government in the USDA organic certification program there would be more small farmers selling USDA organics, therefore, the cost would be lower and more people could afford it, but instead those farmers have to develop trusting relationships with customers that are willing to seek them out. Difficult again for the less affluent people in America. This all goes back to my previous posts about not trusting the government, how organics don't serve the people and why I fear standards being set for honey. Thank you.

    Going back to previous posts. You've shared quite a bit of knowledge you claim to have on many scientific studies and when it was requested that you share resources, such as how genetics do not play a LARGE role in health, you've failed to produce anything. I'm still waiting.
    Last edited by The Soap Pixie; 03-22-2011 at 10:29 AM. Reason: I used the word pesticides when I meant organic, and additional comment I wanted to make.
    ~Michelle

  10. #70
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    Apr 2009
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    Stilwell, KS
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    in today's pill society is totally unnecessary. Eat right and exercise and you don't need these pills.
    As if the development of modern antibiotics and statin cholesterol fighting drugs have done nothing to increase longevity and quality of life?

  11. #71
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Longevity yes, quality of life no.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #72
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    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    ??

    I always thought being alive is a higher quality of life than being dead and rotting in the ground.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baker Oregon
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    2,416

    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Most farmers do not use organic practices. That is it part I would like to go back to because there was a time when most farmers did practice organic farming. It is not the practice that causes the prices to be high it is because only a few are doing it.
    Out of curiosity what was the average lifespan, eating organic food, getting a lot of exercise and without modern medicine and medications? There are implications of quality over quantity. However the average life expectancy in the 1700's was late 40's the 1800's mid 50's. So in modern America the average is late 70's. Even if you assume the last 10-15 years have poor quality, you are still far ahead of where you would be other wise.
    Dan Hayden 4 Years. 12 hives. Tx Free. USDA Zone 5b.

  14. #74
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    Mar 2010
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    Apple Valley, MN
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    375

    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Now we are being told that taking pills for an ailment leads to longevity but no quality. Ok. Whatever. So, I have a predisposition to heart disease, I'm also a runner and weight lifter who eats organic. If I have a heart attack, which is quite possible because my healthy family counterparts have had that misfortune, and I take medication for it, my life is just going to be a big pile of doo doo? Thanks for letting me know.

    This conversation has gone way off from organic honey and government regulation and since Acebird is giving opinion and no resources to back up his statements I find this all a waste of time. When the resources start flowing in I'll be back
    ~Michelle

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    If acebird is to answer that question he should know that the average lifespan for men in the US is 71 and the female is 79. Now factor in organic, no med's and exercise.
    ~Michelle

  16. #76
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    Jul 2008
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    Limestone Co, Alabama
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    ... The bottle says "to remove pesticides, waxes, chemicals."
    I don't think it would be illegal to sell it if you bottled tap water for this purpose. Water is a universal solvent and given enough time, enough water will remove anything.

    The problem with the organic food versus non-organic or "inorganic" (?) food debate is that humans don't understand what they know. We hijack good sounding generalizations at the point of a pen, and then attempt to reconstruct the whole of society around these catch phrases. I call these generalizations "catch phrases" because they only trap or "catch" those of us to far removed from reality to look where they step. The words "organic", "real", and "natural" are (IMHO) examples of catch phrases used in this manner.
    Last edited by Scrapfe; 03-22-2011 at 12:47 PM.
    Scrapfe---Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.--Otto von Bismarck.

  17. #77
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Out of curiosity what was the average lifespan, eating organic food, getting a lot of exercise and without modern medicine and medications?
    There are many factors affecting life expectancy. If you want to compare diet and exercise you should take any year and compare how one region does compared to another. Say Japan and United States or African nations to United states. You could also see some trends within a country for short periods. The Japanese diet has now increased in red meats and a decline in their lifespan is a result.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    I would love to see the great social critics of the past, men like Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, and George Bernard Shaw weigh in on “organic” verses non-organic, or “in-organic” food.

    My reason for saying this is that George Bernard Shaw’s play “Pygmalion” was recently aired on TV in its Hollywood musical form “My Fair Lady.” At the danger of assuming too much, I suspect that the people who embrace organic food feel their views are closer to the views of the great social critics named above.

    In the musical “My Fair Lady,” Elisa Doolittle’s opening number listed the most pressing needs, wants, and wishes of a poor Victorian era flower girl. In Elisa Doolittle’s world “Lots o’ coal making lots o’ heat…” and “… lots o’ chocolate for me to eat….” trumped Canadian organic potatoes. In light of this revelation, I am interested in how George Bernard Shaw, Charles Dickens, and Victor Hugo among others would view or write about today’s “organic” food movement. I wonder if these authors would treat the organic food movement as the last best hope for the hungry and poor as some seem to believe. Or would Hugo, Dickens and others portray organic food and its champions as a greedy capitalist cabal conspiring to stick it to the poor and hungry while these organic J.P. Morgans rake in obscene profits.
    Scrapfe---Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.--Otto von Bismarck.

  19. #79
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    Stilwell, KS
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    I don't think it would be illegal to sell it if you bottled tap water for this purpose. Water is a universal solvent and given enough time, enough water will remove anything.
    No only is water the universal solvent, it is an inorganic solvent to boot (by any definition). Now I am really confused. What happens when you wash certified organic veggies with an inorganic solvent?

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Organic Honey is Certified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    ... That is it part I would like to go back to because there was a time when most farmers did practice organic farming....
    Yes, and there was a time when most farmers, at least those with a surplus to sell, practiced slavery and indentured servitude.
    Scrapfe---Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.--Otto von Bismarck.

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