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When to remove wrap

16K views 34 replies 15 participants last post by  wildbranch2007 
#1 ·
If you wrap your hive in the north what is the proper time to remove the wrap?
 
#2 ·
I removed my tarpaper yesterday, when I did my first brief inspection at 55F and sunny. Can't really inspect with the wrap stapled on.
I put wrap to protect in blizzards with high winds, for like around 15F or lower....don't really expect any more of that now, from looking at the forecast and at average temps for this time of year. I figure the wrap isn't really necessary anymore if nights are above 20F and days are above 35F.
I see wraps as a windbreaker during frigid mid-winter weather and blizzards, that's my view.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the response. You are further south from me and we get some crazy weather so I will hold off for a week or two. Right now it is warm but the wind is blowing like crazy. I would like to throw them a honey patty but I am afraid to pop the lid because of the strong wind.
 
#9 ·
Took mine off today. Saw the "Dance of the young bees" yesterday in front of some hives. It's the earliest for such behavior that it's ever been seen - here. I attribute it to the 2 inch layer of styrofoam on top of the outer cover. The queen probably started laying earlier because of it. OMTCW
 
#10 ·
My problem is I am unsure how much they have left for stores. After doing some Internet research I learned that hive temps will affect consumption. If I leave the wrap on the bees might consume all they have left before the first nectar flow. Although I am not inclined to use a feeder the bees have built up comb around the hand hole in the inner cover and they congregate at that point. A feeder over that hole might not work so good. I have no idea how big the cluster is because I feel it is not warm enough or calm enough to pull the inner cover off.
 
#13 ·
You don't have to even crack open the inner cover. Since you fear disturbing them, just simply pour about 3 to 5 lbs. of granulated sugar around the hand hold where they have built comb. Try hefting the hive for its weight, if you have difficulty then it probably has enough honey. Pouring sugar onto paper directly over the cluster is like asking for ants in the spring. Especially if there is an open screen bottom board. Bees can just as well find sugar on the inner cover and this allows you to use the remainder from the inner cover for spring syrup feed. No waste and no ants. OMTCW
 
#11 ·
My problem is I am unsure how much they have left for stores. After doing some Internet research I learned that hive temps will affect consumption. If I leave the wrap on the bees might consume all they have left before the first nectar flow.
They will consume a LOT more of their stores if they have to use them to generate heat to maintain the cluster temperature.

In the north, it is hard to leave them on too long in the spring. Mine stay on until mid/late April or even early May. The wraps help the colony to maintain a stable internal hive temperature.

Look at it this way - it is unlikely that they will get so hot early in the year (in the north) that the colony is harmed, particularly since if it is that warm, they will be able to fan.

But if they get too cold (particularly overnight when temperature swings can be extreme), you can potentially chill and lose a lot of brood. That can be a major setback to a weakened colony coming out of winter.

I grew up in upstate NY, so I am familiar with the winters there. If it were me, I would leave the wraps on until at least the first week of April.

**RE: Ashes and shavings - provide contrast between the snow on the ground and the winter sky. Bees orient their flight toward light. They can have trouble differentiating between light reflecting off of snow and open sky. Anything dark on the snow provides contrast and helps to keep them from nose diving into the snow and dying.**
 
#14 ·
I live in Cortland, NY and have had two nice COLD winters in a row, 2+months continuous below 25 with many days below zero, and have some great bees from a swarm that adopted me 2 years ago. I wrap them really good in late fall w/ foam and paper and they stay that way until mid April. I keep them full of honey all winter(10 frames of Full and 10 of a Super~90lbs total).150lbs for me! They eat most of it up by spring. The fact is this, hive boxes provide minimal insulation. The bees need to maintain the proper temp throughout the entire winter. Keeping the wrap on longer will not drive them to consume more nor will it cause them to overheat. The activity of flying and collecting will not begin in earnest until the days are warm enough for blooms. They will continue to consume their stores until a true flow begins. My advice: Wrap em good in places that get harsh and keep em wrapped until lengthy cold spells are gone, warm days w/ nights in 40s are ok(we get frosts until Memorial day and I would never keep em wrapped that long because you need to get in and evaluate your queen as soon as possible). AND, here is the biggie, make sure they go into the winter w/ plenty of food!
 
#15 ·
Anything dark on the snow provides contrast and helps to keep them from nose diving into the snow and dying.**
Ah that's a good thing to know. I actually witnessed that happening and thought they were just goofy or weak.

buy the way are you a member of the mid-york beekeepers.
Yes we are.
 
#16 ·
Since you fear disturbing them, just simply pour about 3 to 5 lbs. of granulated sugar around the hand hold where they have built comb.
We prefer not to feed sugar and have been using capping material left over from the honey harvest that I flatten into a patty and lay on top of the inner cover. I have heard that sugar is not a good spring feed because of the moisture in our area. The weather is crazy though. Yesterday it was almost 60 and today it's in the low thirties with the wind blowing. It has been so long since I have picked up an empty hive that it is hard for me to tell by weight how much honey is left. I think we have to wait to late April to inspect the hive but I am not 100% sure on that one either. We are treading new water with the bees surviving this long on the second try.
 
#18 ·
I have heard that sugar is not a good spring feed because of the moisture in our area. I think we have to wait to late April to inspect the hive but I am not 100% sure on that one either.
lack of sugar or honey is worse, if they have none they will die. My partner and I checked 150 hives the warm day. I had never put sugar on a hive since I started bees, this was a long cold winter, 20 % of the bees were dead, most starved, In thirty years I never had a three deep starve due to lack of stores, I had two this year. If in doubt give them something. we ended putting sugar on 30 % of the hives, never had hives this light this early.

late april is kind of late to inspect the bees as normal swarm season starts the 1st of may, the day you pull your wrapings you should inspect if above 55 and no wind to at least clean off the bottom board, you don't have to pull any frames.
 
#17 ·
I like to see some fresh pollen coming in first before unwrapping. I agree that preventing chilled brood is more important the worrying about starvation.

With a large number of hives I think my odds are in my favor by waiting and trying to keep the optimal brood rearing temps into April.
 
#19 ·
[My partner and I checked 150 hives the warm day. /QUOTE]

I think I missed my chance. The darn freezing weather is coming back this week. I wanted to get in there but the wind was blowing the bees 3 ft sideways the instant they left the entrance and then they headed right back for the entrance like a scared rabbit.

Thanks for the reply Mike.
 
#20 ·
Just to see what would happen, I left two hives unwrapped. They seem to be doing as good as the ones I wrapped with insulation. I run two deeps and left a medium full of honey. I know its not very scientific but it seems to me as long as they have plenty of food and are vented good, healthy, queenright, etc.......they will make it. When I see photos of cutouts they could be in any type of building or tree with varying insulation. But winter isnt over yet for me and I may have just shot myself in the foot !!! One of the hives I left unwrapped was a swarm I caught early last spring, maybe that has something to do with it. Who knows ?? They will continue to confuse me.
 
#21 ·
Grid

Am I undertstanding this correctly from the QC doc? (1/2l of vinegar per 10 kg of sugar against nosema)

They are saying to add 1/2 litre (just over 1 pint) of vinegar in addition to the water (approx 7 quarts) to 22lb sugar to make a 2:1 syrup mix ??
Sound like an awful lot of vinegar, maybe my math is wrong.
 
#22 ·
Just to see what would happen, I left two hives unwrapped. They seem to be doing as good as the ones I wrapped with insulation. I run two deeps and left a medium full of honey. I know its not very scientific but it seems to me as long as they have plenty of food and are vented good, healthy, queenright, etc.......they will make it.
I've read all kinds of unproven theories. An over abundance of honey doesn't always pan out. In very cold weather bees head right for the top cover and then can't get to the honey below. Leaving a super on top of two deeps results in an increase in volume of the hive to heat. Knocking the hive down to just two deeps max in the fall forces the hive to decrease the population so it doesn't consume so much in the winter. Obviously location will make a huge difference on how successful these theories are but in my neck of the woods two deeps / three mediums is the norm for overwintering.

It is great to see so many members on this site in Upstate NY.

BTW I don't really have a wrap on my hive. It is three sheets of heavy roofing material hung on the sides of the hive leaving the front uncovered.

 
#23 ·
I've read all kinds of unproven theories. An over abundance of honey doesn't always pan out. In very cold weather bees head right for the top cover and then can't get to the honey below. Leaving a super on top of two deeps results in an increase in volume of the hive to heat. Knocking the hive down to just two deeps max in the fall forces the hive to decrease the population so it doesn't consume so much in the winter.

Okay, so bees are able to heat the area of 2 deeps and not 2 deeps and 1 medium. I must have gotten lucky then this year, because I thought bees heated the cluster not the entire area of the hive. So next year I will leave them less stores so they can heat a smaller area.
 
#24 ·
because I thought bees heated the cluster not the entire area of the hive.
That is actually what I believe too. But I have read a lot of discussions where more space is not good in cold regions. I am a newbee, lets not forget that. What I have read is two deeps is enough room to store plenty of stores to make it through the winter in Upstate NY. If the deeps are not full then maybe they should be. Did I know if my deeps were full this winter? No. All I know is they were darn heavy.
 
#28 ·
so perhaps it is best to determine wintering accomodations based on the needs of the bees.
You have just sited differences between bee species so how does a newbee determine wintering accommodations based on needs? I know some like to talk to their bees but I have yet to understand their language.
 
#29 ·
You have just sited differences between bee species so how does a newbee determine wintering accommodations based on needs?
You can only observe them and hope they know what they are doing. I got my first carniolans this past year and two of them only filled a deep and a medium. They wintered well so maybe they were telling me that that was all they needed.

It was a mild winter here in Maine, though, so I don't think that will become my typical Carni configuration. (Just because they tell you something, it doesn't mean you have to believe them. They can be tricksters at times. You never can tell with bees.)

Wayne
 
#32 · (Edited by Moderator)
I was taught in Mass. middle of feb. clean the bottom board, and check for stores.
You are now in Syracuse? Could you even see your bottom board this year in the middle of February? I was getting dizzy plowing snow. Yesterday I scooped out some dead bees from the bottom board and found this bug that someone told me was a bumble bee. I also took a tug on the boxes and they seem pretty heavy to me. Bees were happy chewing away on the cappings that I have been putting on top of the inner cover but based on the weight of the hive I don't think I need to feed. Last year the bees made it to the end of February and then died. It looked like they barely touch the honey in the top deep. We harvested some of it and use the drawn comb for our second try. Things went way faster on the second hive.

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Bee Hive/BeesFeb14-11003.jpg
 
#33 ·
You are now in Syracuse? Could you even see your bottom board this year in the middle of February?
yes around syracuse, I can see it from my house but never visit. Up here I moved all the dates a month ahead, so up here I would try it around March 15, never been successful at openeing the hives yet on that date. Just this weekend put away the toboggon and snow shoes, I can now walk in to all my yards, figure mud season will end about june. MY buddy was prunning his apple trees, told me he had all kinds of deer damage ate all the buds. I said couldn't bee deer the snow was too deep for them to get into his yard. I was pruning mine yesterday, looked up in the tree above my head, I was 6 ft tall in my younger days, and all the buds were gone, I figured out it was rabbits walking on top of the snow!!! gota love it
 
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