Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    I would like some advice I am going to convert a 10 frame(3 deeps) hive to all 8 frame.I am going to use all 8 frame mediums on all my new hives so my plan is to convert this old 10 frame with all deeps that is a very strong hive to new boxes(the original boxes are in bad condition)But I want to get the best honey crop possible this year. I built a new 8 frame deep to use on the bottom and mediums for everything else. This is my plan-Find the super that has the queen in it(I think they are in the middle deep now) I'm going to remove the 8 center frames and install into my new 8 frame deep,then set a new medium with new foundation(I don't have any drawn medium foundation) on top of the new bottom deep to start off with.Or I was thinking of cutting some of the other deep frames out to put in new mediums but they do have wires installed in them. Then maybe use some of the other deep frames to put into another 8 frame deep box for a later split.If all works out then next spring when the bees are above the bottom super cycle out the deeps for mediums. This the first time trying anything like this so any help would be appreciated,I sure don't want to mess up such a good strong hive. Also was wondering when a good time to complete this in Ohio. Thanks David

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Raeford, NC
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    Could you take a piece of 1/4 inch plywood and create and adapter plate.

    Cut a piece to the dimension of the 10 frame deep, then set an 8 frame box on top of it, trace out the interior opening, and cut out the center.

    Place the 8 frame woodenware on top of your 10 frame and let them move up. Removing the bottom boxes as appropriate until you are completely in the 8's

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Newman Lake, Wa.
    Posts
    154

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    A piece of 2X2 19 7/8 long attached to the side of the 8 frame box should work. Once the conversion is complete, take off the piece added.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Palm Bay, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,297

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    If you have more than 8 frames of brood set the other deeps with brood above your medium and over an excluder. After all the brood emerges you can pull the deeps and extract any honey in them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    Here is an idea. Find the queen first. Take your three mediums and place them on the old hive stand and move the old 3 deep hive to a nearby location. Take the old queen and move her to the 3 mediums. All the foragers will return to the new 3 mediums and you are off and running at that location. What you have created is an artificial swarm.

    Now go through the old three deeps and pull the brood and put them in your new 8 deep and add a queen or let them make their own. I prefer adding a queen. If there is more brood than 8 frames you need to put another 8 frame deep on top or add the old 10 frame on top with an excluder and a conversion board. As the brood hatches out above the excluder you can remove those frames and box and add some med supers. Don't be afraid to leave some honey and pollen frames and feed this hive because all you have left is a bunch of nurse bees.

    Just and idea not sure if it will work and would welcome any coments.

    Good Luck

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    The origanal hive body's are in pretty bad shape so I need to change them out. Some of the deep frames are old and messed up(very old hive).I do have 2- 8 frame deeps if needed for the frames with brood.As far as finding the queen I'm not sure I can ,I couldn't last fall. My main goal is to change to new 8 frame boxes now and then next year cycle out the deeps for all mediums. I would also like to do a split or start a nuc later But for now I want to make sure I can get the best honey crop possible from this hive. I think the cluster is in the middle hive body as of a couple weeks ago.The top(#3) super is still mostly full of Honey.The bees are just starting to fly some. I'm thinking it's a little early yet, when would be the ideal time for this? Thanks David

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    A one by three on one side works perfectly for an adapter:
    http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TenFrameToEight.JPG

    You can do what you like. I see no downside as long as you aren't stealing their frames at all. Otherwise, if you are, you need to time it so there is a flow so they can replace all of that.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    Micheal I did use a adapter last fall for a honey super I put on for a couple weeks it worked fine. If I switch over to new brood chamber boxes. What do I need to put above them to start with. I think that is what you are talking about(not stealing frames) Can I put a medium super on top with new frames and foundation then feed or try to cut out some of the old frames with honey stores and put into new frames(messy I'm sure)or is there a better approach to doing this. Thanks

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    David, If you want to change over then just put the 2 deep 8s on the old hive stand and transfer the best 16 frames to the new hive and shake off the remining bees in that hive. Since these are old brood comb, don't try and cut them up and reuse them in your new mediums.

    Start with adding a frame of honey on the outsides of the bottom brood chamber and put six frames of brood between. Try and keep the brood frames in the same order. In the top super put any remaining brood in the middle and honey to the outside. If the bees need more room then add your new med supers on top.

    I know one of your questions is the timing. I don't know the answer to that but if it were me here in central Ohio I would waite 2 or 3 weeks. They may build a little more in bees but they should have a little less honey to deal with. And with better weather there might be less chance of chilling brood.

    Good Luck and let us know what you did and how it worked.
    Last edited by Jeff G; 03-16-2011 at 01:59 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    Need help with new plan-It was a sunny 65+ today and I tried doing a inspection on my old hive that I was given last fall.It is a lot worse than I had thought specially since fall inspections. the frames are all in bad shape can't even get any out now in top two hive bodys(the tops break off) the top of the 3 deep high boxes is packed with honey stores the middle seams to be where the biggest bunch of bees are now.The hive was real strong last fall and still seams good now.This hive has not been worked in approx.3-5 years.Looks like good survivor bees.The hive bodys are not in very good shape,but would probably hold up another season if need be.I really wanted to get them switched over to all new 8 frame mediums,but now I'm lost at what to do and when to do it. I was thinking of just removing the top super that is full of stores and set a new med on top and try to get them to move up. Any Ideas????? Thanks David

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    David, i agree you need to get them out and into new equipment. But think about getting the queen to move down. Her instincts and the way a hive works is the queen/ brood chamber stays closer to the bottom and the honey is stored in the top of a hive.

    Ok David, I'll try one more time. Basically what I see is you have a hive that is trash and you need to get the bees out. To get the bees out you need to get the queen out.

    Maybe your best bet is to take the top super off but be carfull that you are not taking all their stores. They could starve in the next few weeks if they have nothing in the bottom 2 suppers. But if you feed you might be ok. Set that on its side close by and they will vacate it by evening if the queen is not there and if it has no brood. If there is a little brood and they wont leave I would tare that hive apart and shake those nurse bees off back into the hive and sacrific the brood.

    Then take 2 of your medium boxes and put them on the stand. If the old boxes are in that bad of shape get a new bottom board under you new mediums. Then cut a peice of ply wood 20 x 16.25 and cut out the inside diamiter of the 8 frame as discribed in an earlier post. Put that on the new mediums and then add the 2 remaining old supers on top.

    First option: You could try and shake both old boxes into the mediums and get the queen in the new mediums and then put an excluder on and let the bees emerge above the excluder and in 3 weeks you can take off the old deeps and disgard them after getting whatever honey you can.

    Second Option: would be not to shake and just put a hive top feeder on the stack of 2 new and 2 old supers. Feed them 1:1 syrup constantly as much as they can take. Hopefully they will back fill the emerging brood cells in your old supers and force the queen to move down. I would inspect the bottom mediums ofton and if I saw the queen or eggs, then I would put and excluder between the old and new and remove the old boxes after 3 weeks.

    Let us know what you do.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    Thanks Jeff I'm glad you gave your advice because I was going to just stack new on top.Your advice makes since to me. The second option looks to be my best. All the deeps seem to have good weight to them,the top being the heaviest. I will remove the top and do as you said. I hope that I will not have a problem because of having to use new foundation. I will install a hive top feeder with 1 to 1 sugar water. They are starting to bring in pollen-should I also feed a pollen sub.or not ? I really appreciate your help. This hive I think in the long run will be worth it. What can I do with the top deep frames-extract for feed or honey to keep? Thank you David

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,038

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    I know I think differently than most people but is there any reason you just can't put the new mediums underneath these deeps and let the hive build down into them? Remove the deeps full of honey on top as the hive keeps building down. When you remove a deep replace a medium or two on the bottom.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    If they are all mediums, of course, you can put any frame anywhere, but assuming they are deeps you have a lot of options and I'd do a little of all of them. You can put boxes above or below you can mix eight and ten with a board on the side. You can even put some medium frames in the deep box and later cut the comb off the bottom and put it in a frame. Meanwhile you get some drawn medium comb that will have brood in it if it was in the middle of the brood nest. Once you have some brood you can get the queen in a medium box with an excluder between there and the deep and then you can wait for the brood to hatch and take all of the deep frames.

    Michael
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    When I install the queen excluder before removing the old supers how long do I need to leave it on to be safe if it does have brood? Is it 21 days?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    21 will allow all of the worker brood to emerge. 24 will allow all of the drone brood as well.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Barry, TX USA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    "But I want to get the best honey crop possible this year."

    Not sure you're going to be able to do this and achieve your goal. Might want to settle for just getting them moved into new equipment. I don't have much spare time and am basicly motivated by my own laziness. Seems to me the simplest way to handle this one is to break the hive into three 10 frame deep hives with 8 frame mediums on top (with the aforementioned adapters), making sure there is new brood in each one. You will not have to find the queen and you'll end with with multiple hives in its place. As the hives grow you can top super and eventually move them out of the old wood.

    Old frames have become a menace to me. I've started finding the worst frame in each hive body and replacing it with a new frame (foundationless). This gets rid of bad frames, old chemical ridden wax, cocoons that attract wax moths, helps move me to all foundationless frames and gives the bees something to do in the spring when they seem to be most willing to do it. I don't always remember to do it. Sometimes I don't feel like it and then when I go to remove that old frame, it falls apart...Ughh!!!
    When you stop learning you're dead.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,Ohio
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    I am still not getting anywhere..Back on 3/20/11 I put 2 new 8 frame mediums under all three 10 frame deep boxes.At the time the 2 bottom deeps had the most bees and the top deep was all honey stores.I also installed a top feeder with 1-1. Today I checked the hive and they are not drawing any foundation in the new mediums(I put on the bottom) but know I did manage to get the frames out of the top deep it still has allot of honey but the queen has moved up into it. So I'm not sure what to try next.I know it wont be long before the nectar flow begins. If anyone has ideas please let me know,the weather should be ok tomorrow to change what is needed. Thanks David

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,038

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    I am still not getting anywhere..Back on 3/20/11 I put 2 new 8 frame mediums under all three 10 frame deep boxes.
    I wouldn't expect the bees to move down until all the deeps on top are full. You are saying the flow hasn't started yet so until it does its a waiting game. My thought is if you know the queen is up top (and you better know) then get rid of the bottom 10 frame deep. If there is honey in the frames uncap it on a warm day and let the robbing begin. Then they might have something to put in the mediums or something to draw out the frames.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    1,902

    Default Re: 10 frame to 8 frame (help appreciated)

    David, how is the 8-frame to 10-frame conversion going???

    Ed

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads