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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pickaway/Fairfield Cty, OH
    Posts
    108

    Default Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I always hear that a Queen Excluder equals a Honey Excluder. Could someone who believes/knows this to be true give a little more color on the subject? Wouldn't the honey "excluded" from the super end up in the hive body? In other words, do you believe that the total amount of honey in the hive will be the same or less with a queen excluder installed? Or. is the concern that the bees will become honey-bound (with a near-empty super above the excluder) and swarm?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    677

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I run them on single deeps and not on double deeps. Don't really see a difference in honey production. Twice as much honey on double deeps as single deeps.
    There are those that will swear that they do limit honey production. I've not seen it. So, my take is...don't buy into the scare.
    The real negative I can share regarding queen exluders is this...you will have to check for swarm cells more often. For me, I don't mind. I just take them, try to make a small split and grow that for next year.
    Again, there will be those that would bet their first born that queen excluders are honey excluders. It's not what I experience. Test it out on a couple of hives with and a couple without.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    saint cloud, florida, USA
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I'm with Riverhawk....I've used queen excluders, but only have a single deep with 1 super. The girls cap honey in the super with no problem. Might be different with other configurations, though. Good luck!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sale Creek, Tn. USA
    Posts
    173

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Greetings DB. I believe this is generally true. The bees don't like to go thru it. In my area we do NOT have "tidal wave" honey flows. The bees are very slow to start drawing comb. Why further discourage the bees ? They certainly will "honeybind" the brood nest. I believe they will produce less total honey.

    I accomplish the same thing with a super of foundation. The queen is not at all interested in foundation or white comb. She much prefers dark comb. Of course, if you crowd the brood nest with only one deep, or a deep and a shallow, the queen is going to lay wherever she can, including your freshly drawn comb.

    I use three mediums for the brood nest. I also reverse the supers so she has plenty of empty dark comb to lay in ( put the bottom one on top ). If she has plenty of room in the brood nest she will be reluctant to move up onto white comb.

    Queen excluders have their place. If I use a super of drawn ( especially darker )comb right over the brood nest it is necessary to use an excluder, at least until they get it filled with honey. I believe excluders should only be used when specifically needed. It is better not to use them.
    Raymond

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pinehurst, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    226

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I have never needed to use one. If I had a queen that kept getting into my shallow supers I would consider it though. Many beekeeping books (including Beekeeping for Dummies) refer to them as if they are a necessity. This is not the case. My suggestion to a new beekeeper would be not to use one, especially on 2 deep new colonies.
    ...This, and my heart, and all the Bees
    Which in the Clover dwell.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Madison County, Alabama
    Posts
    487

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I tried to follow that belief, until I found brood in my honey supers ...started using excluders and have never looked back.
    "...the most populous colonies ...are provided by queens ...in the year following their birth." Brother Adam

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,235

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Y'all can believe what you want. I get 5-8 supers of honey per hive using an excluder.
    If you really think that you will get more than that without one.... Well then give it a try.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,728

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Our belief is that when properly managed, a hive will make the same amount of honey is 1 deep or 2 deeps. with our without am excluder. With one deep and an excluder, you can remove more of the honey and sell it. If you are not trying to make money or honey, it does not matter what you do.

    Roland

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Puxico,Mo, USA
    Posts
    54

    Smile Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I used queen excluders on new hives of two deeps and the bees had no problem going through it, drawing comb and storing honey. Had some honey that first year and lots of honey the next year. It certainly did not affect my new hives nor the honey production.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,162

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Technique is everything. This includes things like the timing of when you put them on, to using bait combs (combs already being worked) to get them to enticed to pass through. An upper entrance can help also; some foragers will return to the honey storage area without passing through the brood nest. Timing wise, one can let them work without the exlcuder for a little while, then subsequently smoke the queen down and slip the excluder in. Any brood above the excluder will hatch (and entice bees) and then be back-filled with honey if the timing is proper.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lititz, PA, USA
    Posts
    710

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    I think like 95% of beekeeping this is a "what works for you" thing. I've been intriqued by this article and am intending to try the "entrance at the excluder" idea at some point:

    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...oney-excluder/

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Beckville Texas,USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by libhart View Post
    I think like 95% of beekeeping this is a "what works for you" thing. I've been intriqued by this article and am intending to try the "entrance at the excluder" idea at some point:

    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...oney-excluder/
    I have also heard that the upper entrance above the excluder reduces swarming.Seems worth a shot.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, Florida
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Instead of listening to what others say about this or any subject take the time and see for yourself.
    Take two hives of equal strength that you have and put a queen excluder on one and leave the other one alone.
    In my experience sometimes it makes no difference and other times it will be obvious what the excluder does for a hive.
    Reading books, magazines, attending bee club meetings, and talking to beekeepers will get you lots of ideas and opinions. Observing your own bees will make you a better beekeeper. Then you can tell new beekeepers what worked for you and the results you have found. Then you can be added to the list of beekeepers with opinions that some will listen to and others will reject. Beekeeping at its best. LOL
    Have a great day,
    Chappie

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Medford, New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    We've been told that bees don't like to go through the excluder if there's undrawn foundation above. Doesn't seem to be a problem it there's drawn comb.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pickaway/Fairfield Cty, OH
    Posts
    108

    Default Re: Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappie View Post
    Instead of listening to what others say about this or any subject take the time and see for yourself.
    For me it's not one instead of the other, I do both. This time of the year in Ohio, however, I get to do a lot more listening, reading, etc. than doing. But it won't be long now!

    In my experience, the queen did lay in the supers without a QE and did not lay in supers with one. That much I can tell. As far as honey production goes, it's hard to know. There are so many variables, and I don't have that many hives yet to say that any two are equal in every way except whether they have a QE.

    The more I learn, the more questions I have, that's just my nature. When I first heard "Queen Excluder = Honey Excluder", I figured they meant that the honey would be excluded from the super and the beekeeper would get less, while the bees kept more. And, if the bees don't get enough honey, well, too bad, they get sugar water to make up the difference. Now, I wonder if it's more than that, i.e., when the bees get enough honey in the hive body, they will either slow down or swarm. Hence, my question.

    Thanks to everyone, I love this site!

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