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Thread: Ccd

  1. #1
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    Default Ccd

    I have a question - we don't have CCD in my country.

    Does CCD (genuine CCD) affect only migratory hives, or does it also effect hives that are never moved, and hobby hives?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Oldtimer, from what I've read, the biggest impact has been on migratory operations. Though CCD has been reported among some non-migratory operations as well. The biggest caveat is that some people ascribing hive death to CCD really don't know, and haven't done a thorough autopsy.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenG View Post
    The biggest caveat is that some people ascribing hive death to CCD really don't know, and haven't done a thorough autopsy.
    Agreed. It's often hard to tell what's hype and what are actual CCD losses. When a commercial beekeeper loses dozens of hives of the same symptoms, that's a pretty good clue. But one guy losing a hive or two is hard to rely upon.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Thanks for the replies.

    I've had a pm on the subject from a 5th generation commercial beekeeper so thought I'd add value to the thread by copying and pasting some of what he said:-

    Quote
    "It is a pathogen
    If you put good bees in old CCD equipment, they will not make honey, and will die the next winter.
    From Hackenberg, irradiation will clear the equipment.
    New bees and new equipment for now still works.
    Storing in a warehouse for 2-3 years is not long enough..
    Leaving outside overwinter does not clear equipment.

    The first indicator is dry "C" larvae, not shiny.


    The movement of drones in the almond holding yards is just a commonly observed phenomona by others. The phrase is usually on the order of "the sickness just spreads from one side of the yard to the other".

    I have no first hand knowledge, only heresay

    Last - we got our CCD from imported honey, so if you import ANY honey into your country, you may be at risk.

    We treat all other hives and honey as a source of contamination, and act accordingly. Not using a hive tool in someone elses hive, no other peoples hive tool in our hives, etc".
    End Quote
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Oldtimer

    I don't think the ccd is solely the c shaped larvae although it is a problem. We tested 60 great hives for hygienic behavior, Mite count and Nosema loads in order to pick breeders. Had one that tested 89% hygienic. No Nosema. Mite load was high for us.(7% six months after 20 hour forming acid flash treatment. One of the most beautiful brood,pollen, and honey patterns but had a couple of the funky larvae in a couple of the open cells. Needles to say she did not make the cut.

    Ccd hits hives not moved. In my opinion it is a combination of stuff brought on by high mite loads. People who wack mites before levels get to high have almost 0 ccd. Nutrition in early fall also a big factor.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Couple of interesting points there. Hygiene, can be different to varroa sensitive hygeine. There was some interesting research done on this in my country where they used techniques to work out if the hygeine going on was specifically targeted at cells containing varroa, often it is not, but for some bees they do.

    And the other thing you said, from the reading I've done it does seem like CCD is in some way linked with varroa. The beekeeper who sent me the info in the last post also said in another pm that he believes varroa play a big part. Thanks for confirming that, Your practicle experience in finding that correct varroa treatment almost eliminates CCD is great to know.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Keith Delaplane gave a talk on CCD and from what I remember, the focus wasn't one the mites, it was the level of chemicals found within those hives. He said it was one third of the CCD issue/problem.
    Regards, Barry

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Barry,


    Couple of questions for Keith next time you communicate with him.

    If ccd is 1/3 caused by chemicals how come totally brand new equipment cracks of even with no chemicals applied?

    How come ccd ravages bees in at a higher rate if they are "unchemicalated"?

    How come ccd hit hard all over the US in a two year period? If it was chemicals related the bees from the heavy dosers would have dumped prior to anyone else? Their is no statistical proof of this as far as I know.(this statement comes from a clean hive advocate)

    This is not to say that I disapprove of the research being done by Mr Delaplane or others. I personally think the statement is a guess at best.

    As I have stated here before when this is all said and done my hunch is that the answer is going to be viruses and bacteria vectoring related to mite levels at a critical time in the food cycle in late summer. Clean bees and great nutrition in August /early September sure doesn't hurt anyone's overwinter rate.

    ??MQTA??

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Sure wish I had one of those million dollar virus analyzing machines.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ccd

    I'll try and find the video of his talk.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Is there any data about ccd and colonies that are "treatment free" for varroa, and yet give all indications of having varroa under control?

    My reasons for asking is that if viruses play a role, and chemicals are 1/3 of the equation for ccd, and varroa vectors ccd, are the bees being marketed for the past 5 years plus giving the bees a fighting chance against ccd? Reports indicate ccd hits both migratory and stationary hives, and sooner or later we'll all experience ccd.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ccd

    Link to the video would be helpful. May get some clues I hadn't considered before. Would be great if someone threw up a link or had other info as to his "1/3 is chemical related " hypothesis.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ccd

    I searched, but couldn't find it. It started with a link deknow posted some months ago that I followed, I think to Vimeo, which led me to a bunch of videos of beekeeping conferences of which Keith was one. I remember seeing the graphs of the different chemicals as well. I'll keep looking.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ccd

    I have read a lot on ccd but I have yet read where it is ravaging the treatment free hives...

    A matter of fact most of the losses blamed on ccd are coming from migratory hives which treat.

    I will stand corrected if someone can show me different.

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