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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    Having worked with Warres for a while I would suggest catching the queen as well. Put her in a cage with a sugar plug and move her into the Warre box. Graft a frame or two into the warre box and let the bees move into the Warre. It might be difficult to graft like was said but I think your chances of success are far greater this way then trying to the get bees to move of their own accord.

    I've now built well over 30 Warres for different people and the best thing to to populate with a package or swarm. That give the highest chance for success. I know that doesn't allow for local bees but I would rather have them stay and build a stong hive then fail to move and possibly swarm. Another thought would be to purchase a local queen and then swith the queen in the package for the local queen. You would need to let the package get used to her scent for three days or so before hiving but that way you would get local brood as the queen would have mated locally or will mate locally and the 10,000 or so worker would slowly die off and be replaced by the brood of the local queen. You might get the best of both worlds that way.

    The only draw back to that would be the stress to the bees and how long they have been in their package. I have had success in keeping a package for 3 days or so due to weather not permitting a hiving. Just make sure you spray with water a few times a day to keep them hydrated. There should be plenty of sugar water in the can that they are shipped with.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    Someone on here posted a cool video showing how to use those claw like hair clips to make grafting easy. He attached the clips to the top bars then the clips grabbed the comb.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kalispell, MT, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    I've got the same dilemma on how to move a deep-frame nuc into a Warre hive, so reading these posts has been very helpful.

    I've made a Langstroth 5-frame deep nuc to get the bees out of the cardboard one they'll arrive in. My plan is to put the Langstroth nuc on top with a migratory cover, an adapter board below that, then the Warre hive body and bottom board with entrance on the bottom. I hope the bees move down, though it appears from these posts that there's a 50% chance they won't.

    My question is will the bees find the sugar I plan to put on the Warre' bottom board? Since it's near their entrance, I'm assuming they will, but I have zero experience at beekeeping and need all the advice I can get! The weather here is still in the 40s, so feeding will be essential for a while, and the bees need to be able to access the sugar. What other options do I have to get a supplement higher and warmer?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Essex County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    Hi Kathy,

    I'll be interested to hear how it goes. Thanks for posting. It sounds like the bees will have to come down to exit the hive. I would not worry about the them finding the sugar.

    By way of update, I have decided to take the approach described in post 9 but with some modifications.

    1. I am building the modified Lang hive body, per the attached to post 9.

    2. First I am just going to leave the bees in the modified hive body with a normal top for a week or so, while they hopefully build out the wax onto the topbars placed on the same level. That's just the way it would work if you put a 5 frame nuc in a regular lang surrounded by empty frames.

    3. Once they build some wax on the 5 topbars, I will put on a modified top and place the first Warre box on top of the lang box with those frames in it and will replace them with five new ones in the modified lang box below. I will also put the queen up there with a queen excluder between the lower lang box and the upper Warre box so she can't get out of the hive.

    4. I'll keep building up from there, adding Warre boxes on top. I'll take away the bottom lang box once all the brood there have hatched from the Lang frames.

    I know what I am doing goes against the Warre approach of having the bees move down, but I like to experiment. No offense to the Warre philosophy meant. Besides, these bees are coming in a Lang box so I'll just keep it a secret from them that they are switching philosophies.

    I'll post back what happens.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    My question is will the bees find the sugar I plan to put on the Warre' bottom board?

    Yes, they will find the sugar. I have fed my Warre hives using just a ziplock back on the bottom board and it works very well. If it is 40 degrees then you might have an issue getting them to come out of their cluster to feed if the sugar is below them. In that case you might want to do a top feeder. If they are out flying then they will take the sugar off the bottom board. Just watch them and if it looks like they are just cleaning the sugar out of the hive then switch to syrup and put it in a ziplock and poke holes in the bag with a push pin.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,159

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    I think your plan will work for moving the bees into a Warré.

    But after that, it will be more difficult to get the bees to move into boxes placed on top. Unless there is a strong flow it is hard to get the bees to move into a box placed on top, because it does not have combs or comb foundation. I suspect that is why Ēmile recommends adding the supers underneath, it's easier for them to slowly expand into.

    As an aside though, I have heard of Warré beekeepers adding supers on top during strong flows, to get more honey. That's because if they waited for the bees to move the brood nest downwards it would take too long and the bees stop collecting honey as they have no where to put it.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada BC Delta
    Posts
    451

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    As an aside though, I have heard of Warré beekeepers adding supers on top during strong flows,
    This is done in a Warré when running them for comb/chunk honey. The comb honey box should be seeded with one empty drone comb as a ladder to get the bees working the box pronto. If you want them to move in a smooth fashion it's a good idea to give them a good reason to do so. Seeding the new box with combs from the box below will help move things along.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kalispell, MT, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    Thanks for the feedback. I plan on under-supering with Warre' hive bodies, as I understand that system calls for. As soon as they've got the Lang nuc empty of brood, I'll cut out the comb and attach it to top bars. I hate to do that as soon as I get them for fear the brood will chill and die in this cold weather. I don't expect to be proficient this first time around!

    About the supplemental feeding: Michael Bush presents a good case for sugar, since if the syrup is cold the bees won't take it no matter the hive temp, and nights are going to be <40 for a good long while yet. I guess I could make a spacer and put a baggie or sugar above the Lang frames, which would keep the syrup warmer. That should solve any feeding problems.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,159

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Bay View Post
    The comb honey box should be seeded with one empty drone comb as a ladder to get the bees working the box pronto.
    Makes good sense.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Clarksburg, WV
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    I would love to hear the results of anyone who did the L shaped box idea from post #9. I would like to attempt it this in 2012 as there are some local producers that only deal in nucs.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    I guess I didn't catch this thread soon enough to offer a method for transfering bees from frames to a Warre. For future reference this method has worked in the past. Brush all the bees and queen off all the frames into Warre, then place a sheet of plywood the size of the Nuc or Lang box with the Warre opening cut out of the center, on the Warre. Place a queen excluder on the plywood, then set the Nuc/Lang box on the excluder with the brushed frames in the Nuc/Lang box. The bees will return to the brood through the excluder. Another suggestion is to make a small top entrance in the Nuc/Lang box to allow the drones to exit as they emerge. The bees may start putting honey in the frames as the brood comes out.
    Ernie
    Keep on keepin' bees

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Essex County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    Hi

    Hi

    You can see pictures attached if they don't show here
    IMG-20111231-00038.jpg
    IMG-20111231-00040.jpg
    This method worked for me.
    In the picture of the modified deep super (MDS) you can see the frames from the nuc and next to them a modified space for topbars. Before the nuc came, I place 4 or 5 topbars in that section. I then installed the five frames of the nuc where you see them in the picture and placed a normal inner cover and top on the MDS for a week or so. The bees quickly moved laterally and built wax on the topbars.
    I then removed those topbars and placed them in a Warre box, which I then positioned on top of the MDS, directly above a new set of topbars placed in the MDS. I build an L shaped lid to cover the part of the MDS not covered by the Warre box.
    I got busy with summer stuff at that point and left them for a number of weeks. When I came back they had built out most of the Warre box and the second set of topbars I had placed in the MDS. I removed the latter topbars and placed them in a second Warre box, which I placed on top of the first. This was very disruptive as I had to cut the bottom of the topbar comb. Since I left them for too long, they had built the comb down to the bottom of the MDS, which is deeper than a Warre box. At that point I had 2 Warre boxes on top of the MDS. I placed a queen excluder between the MDS and Warre boxes to trap the queen above. There was lots of brood in the MDS, and I wanted it to hatch before removing the MDS. I learned that the queen is going to keep laying in the MDS unless you do something.
    I came back a final time and brushed the bees from the five frames into the Warre boxes and removed the MDS. At that point I had a Warre hive with 2 boxes full of comb and bees. This too was a very disruptive step and the bees were stressed, boiling out the front of the hive.
    If I do this again using the same method, I will not wait very long between placing topbars in the MDS and moving them up into Warre boxes.
    I am also considering a different method. I might build a following board in the shape of a deep super frame. I would then:
    1. Install the nuc as I did before
    2. Move up a set of bars into a Warre box and place new bars in the MDS as I did before
    3. Trap the queen above as I did before
    4. Then I would remove the 5 nuc frames one by one over the course of so many weeks, sliding over the following board each time. In the end I would have a Warre box on top of the MDS with a set of topbars with comb.
    5. Remove the topbars from the MDS and place them in a Warre box, which I would place below the other Warre box. This would be a lot less work and stress on the bees.
    Of course, I could just gain some common sense and buy a package of bees, but what fun would that be?
    Last edited by WhistleStopHoney; 12-31-2011 at 09:36 AM.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Essex County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    I just checked back at the Warre Store. They are now selling a transfer box. http://www.thewarrestore.com/apps/we...s/show/2774277

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Susquehanna county, PA
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: moving a 5 frame nuc into a Warre

    http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10928 Lang frames to Warre; Is there an easy way?

    http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2699 Converting frames to Warré

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