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How many have switched to Carniolan?

6K views 23 replies 21 participants last post by  BMAC 
#1 ·
This year I am getting Carniolan instead of Italians. I was very frustrated when my strongest hives died early in winter. It appeared the Italians were still hatching brood in early December because we had -5? They were all clustered around the brood and starved. The more I researched Carniolan the more I think it is better suited for our environment. They over winter with less bees and honey use. Also they shut down production earlier and seem to shut down production in times of less nectar flow. That is good for me as I let them have honey for winter. The only down side is it seems the Italians build out comb more than the Carniolan.

How many of you live in the cold and have switched? What have you experienced?
 
#2 ·
As to the comb building, carniolans will build comb. But they don't do anything unless there's a flow. If you want bees building comb etc with a patchy flow, italians may be best. That's how carniolans are more economical the flow stops so do they.

For me though I'm using a hybrid around 3/4 carniolan 1/4 italian. A nice bee and to some extent the best of both worlds. Swarm prone would be the only draw back.
 
#3 ·
This being my first year, I don't know much. But I have carniolans, and 5 of my 6 hives are alive so far. I had to dig out my hives three times this winter, so they had some rough weather. The one that died, I think it was from condensation. It is a double height 5 frame nuc. 4 frames of dead bees in the bottom, and 5 frames of store up top. The other nuc (same configuration) is sitting next to it and is doing great. So I don't think it was just the cold.

Brendan
 
#4 ·
I have switched about 40% of mine to Carnis with 20 nucs of them on order for this Spring. In the past, it has been Italian packages with some success but rolling the dice is getting expensive. I will have some open mated queens this year so maybe I will get a mix and get the better qualities of both into one.
 
#9 ·
I do not, BUT - I have a friend who is a monk at the nearby Abbey. He is the Abbey beekeeper. He has MN hygenics from B&B honey farm (6 of the Abbey's 7 hives I think).

In the three ND winters that I have known him - he has not lost even 1 hive. I am thinking about getting a couple from B&B for my spring nucs!
 
#8 ·
I have always had Italians, this year I am getting all Carniolan packages to see how they compare. They say Carni's typically raise brood according to how the flow is going, I guess the brood rearing curve follows more closely the flow intensity than do Italians. Some also have stated that comb building is more linked to the flows than Italians also, although I would say that any bee probably won't draw comb well unless a good flow is in progress.
I'm just curious with this question, would feeding 1:1 syrup during a dearth to a Carniolan colony induce them to continue brood rearing and comb building at a normal pace, or would they still slow down because of less nectar and pollen coming in? John
 
#11 ·
this is my first year with bees. I had read a lot of different things on carlonian, italian and russians as well.

I opted to go with this out of the fact that the instructor that is teaching my bee class next weekend is also the one who worked on developing the bee line.

Most interested in seeing how they work out. My mentor had been using italians and he lost both his hives this year.
 
#12 ·
no more itall for me hello,the 4th winter 1 carnolian, 2 new world carnolian ,1 russian carnolian they call "yugo".....my thoughts so far is these breeds are comparable as far as winter stores.The populaton of the nwc's is much greater at this time,has drones still. started these 2 hives with queens last spring 2010 gave two drawn capped honey comb with bees.very good queens wintered in two deeps only open fed 25lbs of sugar no treatments of any kind on all hives.The hives started with 2 3# packages carnolian one frame drawn out little honey 1 drifted over after 1 queen failed,combined nucs population volley ball size last to exit hive for forage, uses mass numbers all day,wintered over in 2 deeps..1 started yugo hive with queen april 7 had queen shipped as soon as possibe two frames of capped honey with itall bees donor hive died 3 weeks into nector flow.some kind of sickness burnt hive small numbers but emerge far earlier to forage stay's out later population surpasses all by late spring.tried 2 years with itall starved early winter. only removed honey from second year survivor hive...im going to breed queens off 2 winter survivor this year...
 
#14 ·
I started beekeeping in 1964 and through the years have had just about every breed of bees that came along. They all have good and bad points. For the last 10 years i have bought nothing but carniolan queens (10 to 20 per year) just to keep new blood,so they say. They are easier to work with and don't rob as bad as some of the other breeds,but are more prone to swarm if you don't work them in early spring and give them room.I have lots of swarm calls within a 30 mile radius in the summer,and raise most of my own queens from survivor hives,so i have mongrel bees with supposedly mostly carnional blood lines and have been happy with them. I have my doubt that the queens we buy are pure bred anymore. Jack
 
#17 ·
Yes Lapps. I did try to order from Dadants in Watertown but they would not take credit card for the bees. They take it for everything else. Anyway it was going to be such a hassle to pay that I am going to Lapps. I get friendlier service and help at Lapps. The last time I called Lapps, Dean really went the extra mile when he did not have to. I am glad to give him my business.

Thanks everyone for the posts. I feel like I am making a great decision with the carnies. I think they will be a much better breed above and beyond the fact they will over winter better in this climate. I just assumed everyone had figured it out and that is why everyone in this area uses Italians. Maybe for bigger operations it makes sense but for me I think I will be much better off with the carnies. I will let you know if it pans out.
 
#16 ·
I have some of both. But, will be buying more Carney Queens this year than Italians. I really like the black bees. But, I have already lost one swarm this year. I knew I needed to split the hive two weeks ago but, have been too busy to get to that particulary yard. It looks like I missed splitting by just a couple days. They explode on our Maple blooms and then want to swarm right before the main flow. I have had good luck splitting these hives right before the flow and making honey from both splits. But, you have to stay ahead of them this time of year.
 
#20 ·
As a first time beekeeper two years ago starting out with two Italian hives was very depressing. Heavy mite loads, had to treat like crazy and still lost both of them. They all died away from the honey stores. I went to Russians and VSH and have liked them.
 
#22 ·
I lost one of my two Italian hives this winter and am switching to Carni's to see if I have better luck this year. My losses had nothing to do with the breed though as my first year loss (single hive) was due to a wet hive and this past year was due to yellow jackets.
 
#23 ·
I run Carnie and Russian Carnie hybrid.

Coming out of winter with 14 of 14 hives doing great.

I wintered all my hive 1 deep and 1 medium. So far all but 1 hive is still in the deep box laying brood. The 1 hive that is in the medium had 6 frames left and were raising brood in the upper medium.

I do have 3 italian hives that I did emergency feeding on however of the 3 only 1 was really in the need for feeding. 1 of the italian mutt hive runs 2 deeps and 2 medim due to the pure number of bees. This hive is the meanest hive I have but I could easily run 3 deeps in the spring/summer and fall. They out produce any other hive I have but once in the hive they will come out a good 50 ft and attack someone. My father said it look like I was standing in the middle of a dust cloud/storm, due to the number of bees..then he had to run (he was about 50 ft from me). They chased him to the truck, lol.

I plan to replace the italians with buckfast this season, however I am going to breed the big italian hives queen to see if I can keep the production and limit the over defensiveness.
 
#24 ·
I switched over to Carni's years ago. Well not to make it sounds like 40 years ago. However its been 5 years now. They seem to work just fine for me. As pointed out the Italians dont know enough to shut down. So you end up feeding them like crazy where the carnis shut down nicely and I dont have to worry about feeding them all winter long.

Has anyone found commercial packages for carnis? I have not, but I am selling a few NUCs and singles along with some queens for those in the local area that want to switch over. I have also spoke with some folks that are buying italian packages and buying queens from me so they can get their carni colony going.
 
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