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Thread: CDL

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Meeker County MN
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    83

    Default Re: CDL

    weight class is somewhat convoluted.

    Up to 10K GVWR is a Class C,
    10K to 26,000 GVWR, trailers under 10K lb is Class B (generally considered a "straight truck)
    26,001 and Up GVWR, trailers over 10K lb is a Class A. (generally considered a semi-truck/trailer combination).


    (a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:
    Code of Federal Regulations207
    (1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).
    (2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.
    (3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).
    As to who needs a DOT number displayed;
    ALL vehicles used in commercial use, property or passengers, are required to display a number.
    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...le/marking.htm

    As to who is required to "Log"...
    It's the 100 mile rule. Basically, if you return home each and every night, you won't have to run a log book.

    But that doesn't expempt you from doing a vehicle inspection.

    Just remember any piece of paper you are required to fill out is a LEGAL document admissable in a court of law and WILL be used against you.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Newman Lake, Wa.
    Posts
    154

    Default Re: CDL

    Commercial use is the key wording there.

    I just realize the flaw in my thoughts. I was overlooking the commercial intent with regard to bees. If you are moving them to someone elses fields, for the purpose of pollination, etc... and getting compensation, then you are putting your personally owned goods to commercial use. In that respect then you are in fact engaging in commercial activity. I suppose that would also apply if you were moving them between your own fields, but selling the honey.

    A neat little box I find myself in with this :-)

    Thank you for the indulgence, and please carry on :-) I will try and think a little further down the road before I butt in again.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV USA
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    2,310

    Default Re: CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerJ View Post
    weight class is somewhat convoluted.
    10K to 26,000 GVWR, trailers under 10K lb is Class B (generally considered a "straight truck)
    That is a class C. Over 26K GVWR plus trailer under 10K is a "B". If caught beyond 100 miles or going over state lines you can get busted for not having a log book.
    We had a few other threads on this topic when I was shopping around for a truck and I first thought there might be a way around all the regs but it didn't turn out that way. I purchased a truck at 26K GVWR which did allow me to drive with a class C, but I am still stuck with DOT because I take bees into California across state lines (makes it federal) and a stupid log book when going into California. All of those exemptions for beekeepers really amounted to dropping the medical card requirement. Now IFTA is another story. At this time I don't think IFTA is required for vehicles under 26K GVWR but I am only one ticket away from a different opinion. Once I get a forklift I am one ticket away from the common argument regarding combined vehicle weights not exceeding 26k. My understanding, at this time, is that a class C license will allow us to pull an under 10K GVWR trailer with and under 26001 GVWR truck, meaning a GCW of under 36K. I spent hours researching this crap and it only confirms my belief that most of government is a waist of money. The authorities I have talked with don't agree on anything with both commercial and non-commercial DMV's being the most ignorant in my location. A State Highway Patrol pulled me over and he assured me that I needed a DOT number and name of business on door, a log book when going over state lines or over 100 mi, no medical card because of beekeeping, service records, safety triangles, fire extinguisher, and an annual DOT service inspection. The remaining wild cards for me are pulling under 10K trailer and IFTA. Careful about alcohol - I think the FMCSA requires blood alcohol under 0.04%. Also, according to the FMCSA safety requirements, you need to have replacement fuses of all sizes needed for the operation of the vehicle.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Meeker County MN
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: CDL

    HVH,
    May want to go back and read the definition above.

    It's straight from the FWHA. Not my wording. That's why the link is there.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon City, Oregon
    Posts
    988

    Default Re: CDL

    but I am only one ticket away from a different opinion.
    Unfortunately HVH your opinion nor mine mater to the scale dogs, it all boils down to what donut they had that morning and how the wife kissed them on the way out the door
    Honeydew

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV USA
    Posts
    2,310

    Default Re: CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerJ View Post
    HVH,
    May want to go back and read the definition above.

    It's straight from the FWHA. Not my wording. That's why the link is there.
    Its hard to tell tone from a post but I am not in the least bit argumentative. The FWHA quote you posted "(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR." clearly states "26,001 pounds or more". I figured that your assessment was a typo.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2008
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    Reno, NV USA
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    2,310

    Default Re: CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by HONEYDEW View Post
    Unfortunately HVH your opinion nor mine mater to the scale dogs, it all boils down to what donut they had that morning and how the wife kissed them on the way out the door
    That's the sense I get. I have all the regs in my truck, bookmarked and ready to present.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,738

    Default Re: CDL

    Better determine first whether being right is worth the extra hassle of a more deep screwtiny. (incorreectly spelled on purpose)

    Which is worse? No Log Book or one not filled out?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #29
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    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV USA
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    2,310

    Default Re: CDL

    I will keep a log book during the time of year where I travel to California only. That way I can't get busted for not having it but rather only for butchering it. During the rest of the year, the log book is not required and would only provide one more thing to criticize.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Meeker County MN
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    83

    Default Re: CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by HVH View Post
    Its hard to tell tone from a post but I am not in the least bit argumentative. The FWHA quote you posted "(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR." clearly states "26,001 pounds or more". I figured that your assessment was a typo.
    No issues...

    I think we are both trying to say the same thing, just not following the other person....

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: CDL

    I think it's easier to let a professional driver haul your bees interstate and then show up in your Ranger pickup....they don't hassle them at the scale like a poor beekeeper with a 1-ton loaded with bees and a forklift. Though every state is different in their enforcement and depending on "what donut they had that morning and whether their wife kissed them as they left the house" type of deal. I can say that I've been there done that got the usdot # and all the bs it provides. Interstate commerce for agriculture sure isn't what it used to bee....

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,322

    Default Re: CDL

    I hear ya Beedave, the only problem is with that plan you have to own a "hotshot" rig in each state you operate in. We use plan B; the fundamentals of which are avoiding scales as much as is practical to avoid hearing the dreaded "pull it over and bring in your paperwork"

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    984

    Default Re: CDL

    unless it has been changed inthe last 6 months...if you are involved in transporting bees in seasonal movement andthey are your bees you are not required to do a log book. i have been pulled in numerous times with no log book...each time i walk out the door with no ticket. Once whenasked i told officer i had been on road 17 hrs straight...i though she was going to go belistic..thensupervisor said hes not required to have log bood...she gave em a real good look! lol

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: CDL

    ever been thru echo UT?

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
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    1,702

    Default Re: CDL

    I dont think I would run without a log book if you roam thru NYS. According to a NYS DOT Officer the only thing beeks are exempt of is the annual DOT physical due to our "Apiary Industries" work. Other than that he stated we are to follow all other commercial laws set forth by DOT.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: CDL

    So, how much of a Log Book do you keep? Do you fill it out every day? Or every time you travel anywhere in NYS in your truck? I have never been asked for my Log Book. Now it's going to happen I'll bet.

    I was told that I need a DOT Number for my Ford Transit Connect, because it is a Company Vehicle. But that turns out not to be true.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    984

    Default Re: CDL

    unless its been changed in last 6 months i will take issue with the dot in ny as in the dot manual it specifically states im not required to carry log book. i ll see if they have changed it.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV USA
    Posts
    2,310

    Default Re: CDL

    The really sad thing here is that layer upon layer of bureaucracy makes everyone more confused and less efficient.
    Last edited by JohnK and Sheri; 03-06-2011 at 04:14 PM. Reason: tailgater material

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: CDL

    Haven't started to keep a Log Book. When someone tells me to, I will.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    948

    Question Re: CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAC View Post
    According to a NYS DOT Officer the only thing beeks are exempt of is the annual DOT physical due to our "Apiary Industries" work.
    Actually, you are exempt from "Driver Qualifications" in it's entirety:

    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...px?menukey=391

    Everything else including Hours of Service (Logbook), maintenance ect......applies.
    There is a LOT of misinformation floating around on this thread and I would incourage all of you to make a better attempt of knowing what you are doing.

    One thing I do when working at home is to eat my lunch at the computer and study.
    None of us know everything, but it is up to each of us to make the best attempt to learn as much as we can about our business.
    And when it comes to DOT and interstate trucking; this is not just message board chit-chat. This is drop dead serious business.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

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