Over Wintered vs Spring Raised

**sqkcrk** · 02-27-2011, 06:31 AM

When buying Queens, which would you rather have, a Queen that was produced in Sept. and made it thru the winter or a Queen that was produced in March?

**Michael Palmer** · 02-27-2011, 06:44 AM

I'd rather have a queen raised during the summer when nutrition was at its best, and wintered over in a nucleus colony.

March queens are a crap shoot...witness what happened with weather last March in Georgia.

**jmgi** · 02-27-2011, 07:00 AM

Yep, I know a large commercial beekeeper who got hundreds and hundreds of packages last March here in the north, and ended up with LOTS of poor queens that really cost him in honey production in the long run. John

**chillardbee** · 02-27-2011, 08:46 AM

I think I'd go for a sept queen that was over wintered in nucs and sold in spring rather then march queens. The queen breeder would have more of an oppertunity to evaluate the queen, the drones will of been more plentiful for matings, and any duds will of shown up through winter. Actually, I'm planning to do something the same for my operation where i'l be raising queens late summer to overwinter in nucs to use in splitting the hives in the spring then uniting them to gether before the main honey flow and keeping the young queen to requeen. this will be the first year i'll be trying this.

**Michael Palmer** · 02-27-2011, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by chillardbee

this will be the first year i'll be trying this.

Just wait until you see how the nucs headed with over wintered queens buildup. I swear, nucs with wintered queens build faster than splits with spring queens...all things being equal.

**johng** · 02-27-2011, 11:04 AM

I am new to overwintering nucs. But, I must say the nucs I overwintered have absouluetly exploded so far this spring. They have went from 5 frame nuc to almost ten frames in just the past few weeks. I plan on doing several more in July this year.

**Beetrucker74** · 02-27-2011, 11:12 AM

It is not that over wintered queens are any better than spring queens. They just have a big head start on any spring queen because they start building up end of Jan or start of Feb in this area and get a few cycles of brood ahead of spring queens. But if you are over wintering in a Nuc box the risk of them starting to rear brood early and starving goes up or not having a big enough cluster to move to the honey in colder temps. That is what I have run into when trying to make late splits. That is why I have started to make as many as I can by the end of July then build them up on goldenrod and feed if needed.

**sqkcrk** · 03-26-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Palmer

Just wait until you see how the nucs headed with over wintered queens buildup. I swear, nucs with wintered queens build faster than splits with spring queens...all things being equal.

Which is what Larry Connor says, that queens in their second year lay better than in the first year of their life.

**HONEYDEW** · 04-02-2011, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by chillardbee

I'm planning to do something the same for my operation where I'll be raising queens late summer to overwinter in nucs to use in splitting the hives in the spring then uniting them to gether before the main honey flow and keeping the young queen to requeen. this will be the first year I'll be trying this.

Could you explain the reason for splitting them then reuniting them I don't understand how this makes sense, I'm just not following the idea probably...thanks

**RayMarler** · 04-03-2011, 01:17 AM

Keep in mind I'm in California and we are the almond state.
I just got 3 5-frame nucs from Randy Oliver on Tuesday.
I also got 3 4-pound packages from Tinocobees on Friday,
and released the queens Saturday.

The nucs from Randy are last years queens as I requested this way, the same with the packages from Tinocobees, last years queens as per my request. These are proven queens that performed for almond production, versus the first of the year early queens, I'll take the proven queens every time. Queens so early are not mated in the best of the year, the flows are just getting started and the weather is very iffy especially depending on the year, and drones need be started 2 weeks before starting the queens.

So when purchasing first in the year I prefer last years queens. However, I'm finding queens started in July and laying by August first or mid August are very good over winter, from my limited experience when paying attention over the last few years.

**David LaFerney** · 04-03-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by HONEYDEW

Could you explain the reason for splitting them then reuniting them I don't understand how this makes sense, I'm just not following the idea probably...thanks

To keep them from swarming - better to split than to swarm. My overwintered hives are crammed with bees, and wall to wall with capped brood - as all that brood starts to emerge, and the populations double (or triple) it will be hard to keep them from swarming. And the main honey flow doesn't start until well into May.