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Thread: Walk away split

  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,589

    Angry Re: Walk away split

    I had written a huge post in response to the insulting remarks... but of course, the wireless glitched as I clicked post, thus losing the whole thing...

    Instead of typing it all over again, I will just simply say that I am a SOUTHERN, BIG COMMERCIAL BREEDER... and I have been selecting for resistances since the first sign of mites... I openly teach how to rear QUALITY queens with RESISTANCES... and my family (as well as many others that were insulted at once) has been keeping, studying, and producing bees in the US for well over 100 years... we did not get to where we are in this industry by selling junk... That is far from the way the industry works... We could NEVER produce as many queens as we can sell... as my dad used to say "Who the heck banks??? They are all sold well before they are created!"

    As to quality, we have been providing queens to EVERYWHERE (especially the north) since the beginning.... where are the complaints??? With queens heading many thousands of hives, there are plenty of people to attest to quality, yet still no complaints...

    We have never had AHB any where near our locations (and that covers a very large area).

    You struck a nerve with those "anti Hard-working bee keeper" statements. There are COMPANIES (notice, I did not say "breeders" for a reason), out there that resell and even produce "junk" queens... the rest of us are here because we have great products... they are here because some still buy the bottom dollar queens, which is fine if that is what they want to do... but as a breeder, I will not accept the blame for someone elses bees having to be treated or dying from mites, diseases, winter, stupidity, or whatever reason... "Spend a dollar to save a penny"... thats the results of "junk" queens...

    Please do not point a crooked finger... be direct about which "breeders" you are accusing... the rest of us do not appreciate the insults.

    To answer the question about walk-away splits... here is a link to an earlier thread that may help...
    beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249524
    Last edited by rrussell6870; 03-03-2011 at 12:47 AM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Default Re: Walk away split

    Let's do the exact same quote and change the emphasis:

    "People selling queens and bees actually make more money selling replacement queens and bees when the bees fail. Now I'm not saying they are purposely trying to raise queens that fail, but I am saying they have no financial incentive to produce queens that don't."
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    chilliwack, bc
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: Walk away split

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    Walk away splits can produce poor quality queens but they don't have to. The bees know they must produce an emergency queen when they realize they are queenless. They may start feeding royal jelly to too old of larva as well as freshly hatched larva. If this happens you get a poor quality queen.

    CES
    CES has a good point here. you truly do want the bees to rear a queen from the youngest possible larva. In nature, the most common requeening takes place as a supercedure or swarm cells, very seldom as emergency cells. emergency cells has the potential produce some of the best queens but also the worst queens too if your not careful to give them the right resources. I've found that in making nucs, it is an advantage to make sure that i gave them fresh eggs, the fresher the better. that way, when the egg hatches 2-3 days later, they start feeding it heavily right at the start. it's important to get no younger larva in the frames making up the nuc so that they won't rear a queen from an older larva.
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
    Posts
    1,589

    Re: Walk away split

    The breeding industry is based on reputation... there is nothing but "financial incentive" for commercial breeders to produce quality queens... junk queens are sold by COMPANIES just as quickly as quality queens are sold by BREEDERS... the difference is that the junk queens are sold for a far lower price and since most of these companies are resellers, the mark up is very low to begin with... just to be clear, most of the resellers do not get their queens from large breeders... haven't for quite some time now... they get these queens from huge networks of sideliners and migratory operations that downsize after pollenation... its easy to identify these... they are the ones that do not give any info about their queens... true breeders invest more time, resources, and research in their products than anyone else... it is the requirement of success. Broad attacks on those who truly serve this industry is not what I expect from an intelligent man.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Walk away split

    The financial incentive is clearly next year's business and the year after that. Sure, fly-by-night groups have no financial incentive, but those in it for the long haul have lots of incentive - it is their livelihood. This is hardly different than many other trades. If you don't consistently produce a quality product then you're not going to be doing business very long.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    43,492

    Default Re: Walk away split

    >Broad attacks on those who truly serve this industry is not what I expect from an intelligent man.

    I apologize if it came across that way. It was not intended as an attack, it was intended as encouragement for people to raise their own queens. I am sorry if it came across as an attack.

    Certainly there are those who take great pride in their queens and work hard to get high quality queens.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, MS USA
    Posts
    1,589

    Re: Walk away split

    Thank you. I respect your motives, just wish you had chosen better methods. I certainly agree that every bee keeper should try their hand at selection and rearing... I feel that our industry would benefit greatly by this, if for no other reason than a better understanding of honey bee genetics and what it takes for a colony to maintain quality nutrition for optimal health (something that is rarely mentioned is how quality nutrition effects the health, productivity, and gentleness of the workers just as it does for the queens)...

    Turning people away from good breeders is not the way to get there though... one of the greatest benefits of purchased queens from quality breeders is the ample lineages that are available... for small time producers that do not have enough lineages in their operation to successfully mate their queens without inbreeding each season, losses in survivability, production, etc, will eventually ensue... I agree that there are many poorly managed companies that sell queens to their customers that are all grafted from the same few hives, causing their customers to have all sisters in their yards and this issue is most likely the largest culprit in queen quality decline over the last few decades. The second being the lack of drones available during mating, which also can be trouble for small operations... but neither issue is a reason not to try to raise a few queens... its simply "good bee keeping" to take every opportunity that you can to learn from, and better understand your bees.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    740

    Default Re: Walk away split

    Funny how the same principles apply to buying products made in communist China, whose motives seem more like those of the quick buck "ripoff artists", and who also happens to be your political enemy, versus buying at home from a reputable manufacturer. The differences: the junk made in China has only one advantage - lower initial price (due to cheaper materials, lower standards, "slave" labor, cutting corners, etc.); the reputable, local craftsman makes something I'd be proud to own, and that he truly hopes will outperform all competitors' products, and will last forever.

    It also goes for who you hire, the illegal or the journeyman? CHEAP WORK AIN'T GOOD, GOOD WORK AIN'T CHEAP!
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 03-05-2011 at 11:41 PM.

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