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Filling starter/finishers

10K views 44 replies 7 participants last post by  Kingfisher Apiaries 
#1 ·
Can I shake bees from multiple hives to fill my starter box?

I do not have a specific hive that is strong enough to be a double deep finisher, could I just through frames of brood and bees on top of a hive in a deep box? Will they really fight all that much? Thinking grabbing frames of bees from a couple of hives and putting them on a single, and kapoof, I have a strong finisher.

Thoughts please

mike
 
#2 · (Edited)
Yes the bees can come from as many hives as you like it makes no difference.

You don't even have to use nurse bees in the starter either, even old feild bees can start good cells if you leave them queenless a bit longer before putting the larvae in. The finisher should have a good supply of nurse bees around the cells though.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
Wait another 7 days it will surprise you how much they can increase in a week if they have lots of hatching brood.

shaking togather works well I use a spray bottle with thin sugar water and spray them down or if there is a good nectur flow on shake bees off the frame then turn side ways and shake out some necture on them ( make sure your combs in strong enought so they dont break the old dark brood combs work well for this and you dont have to shake very hard)
 
#6 ·
If I was useing starter and finishing colonies I would want to have the graft in the starter for 24 hrs. One day after graft move to the finishing colony. I would set up the finishing colony 10 days before I graft. Mike Palmer posted his cell building methods not to long ago. You should check it out. Its a method that is a lot more convenient than working with starters and finishers. Like anything with raising good queens you need to have an apiary with plunty of resources ( bees and brood) to make it work.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for that.

The US Government has offered to help us but we've said no, we can handle it. But great of you guys to offer to be there!:)

No damage where I live.

A strong reminder that we don't rule nature, we are very feeble!
 
#10 ·
Sure glad you're OK. Last time we had a big quake, I got tossed up off the couch about 20 inches. Outside the transformers on the telephone poles were popping like a fireworks show, lighting the night sky. I got seasick standing up on the ground. The biggest aftershock hit while I was rappelling off a bridge. Certainly true, were are NOT in charge. Also a reminder how thankful we are that you shared so much of your wisdom with us!
 
#16 ·
Mr Lyon, I really think you need to find some more stuff to do in your shop
Or feed a few more yards if you are down here!
Just kidding of course. :lpf:

Filled the starter a few minutes ago, out of a bunch of hives, we will see how it works. Boosted the finisher from some hives too. Like I said, we will see how it works!

mike
 
#21 ·
Yes that can be normal which is why some people keep their starters in a dark room. It's also a risk with screens flat on the bottom, that bees will clog it & block ventilation, which is why many swarm boxes have 2 screens running along the lower section of the swarm box wall, so it's harder for bees to block them off.
 
#24 ·
Oldtimer - Which do you think will produce better QUALITY grafted queens, A queenless starter or a queenright one? Does it make any difference?

Mike Palmer likes Brother Adam's approach of combining swarming and queenless responses. You mentioned in the Cut-Cell Method thread that queenright worked fine. I understand that the goal is VERY intensive queen cell care by LOTS of nurse bees for the first 24 to 36 hours. Dr. Laidlaw believed that this was much more critical than the finisher period or subsequent care.

Do queenless bees feed more royal jelly than queenright bees, or is it the other way around? (I think I'm going to have to do this in side-by-side observer hives and use an infrared video to know for sure.)
 
#29 ·
Oldtimer - Which do you think will produce better QUALITY grafted queens, A queenless starter or a queenright one? Does it make any difference?
OK there is no yes or no answer to that because there are so many variables. For example the "mood" of the hive, ie if they are strong and in swarming mode they will build great cells straight from day zero even though they have a queen.
When I was a full time queen breeder we used the queenless starter for 24 hours before transfering to a queenright finisher, because it was a method that performs consistantly across a range of other circumstances such as time of year etc. For large scale production it is nessecary to "standardise" to some degree. But that doesn't make all other methods wrong, it's just another way. I've got huge respect for M Palmer and the way he does things, along with many other contributors to the site.

Personally though I do believe the first 24 hours can make a difference to queen quality I'll always have the cell starter colony pumping.



They have been in 24 hrs. Now what?
As the bees are confined, the attention to the cells will drop off as they get more panicky about escaping the box. The cells should be moved to a finisher hive.



Checked cells, about 90-95% take. I am shocked as this is my first graft.mike
Awesome!:D Isn't this queen breeding great when it all comes together!:)

Pic?
 
#27 ·
Mike you might want to read Oldtimer's thread of 6th January, 2011 regarding the Cut Cell Method and take it from Day 5 or 6 - the part about transferring to the finisher colony.

I just went back and re-read it. I was wrong, he uses a separate, queenless starter and a separate (initially queenless) finisher, and re-unites the queenright part of the colony on Day 9.

The thread should be easy to find - it's at least 14 pages long and has a 5-star rating.
 
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