About how many bees can you get at one time per hive like that?
About how many bees can you get at one time per hive like that?
Thanks Velbert for you input; I like the shaking box.
If you stock the 4 frame shamrock 4 way deep and us 24 ounce cup of bees out of 20 lbs of bees from 5 hive you can make up about 20-25 Mating nuc
now the mine styrafome with 12 oz cup of bees you can make up 50-55 mini nuc
Last edited by Velbert; 02-24-2011 at 10:04 AM.
I guess you mean 24 oz per each of the four chambers or a little less than 3 lbs to provision all four chambers. So somewhere around 3 lbs of bees times 6 Shamrocks make for about 24 mini's with about 20 lbs of bees to start with.
Just a question, Velbert - How much volume of bees would you add for mating nucs if you were using standard Langstroth deep brood hives divided to make three 3-frame mating nucs? I'd tend to think you'd prefer a set amount of bees per new queen, but the environment does come into play. Maybe you just want them crowded? My intent is to make increase colonies / overwintered nucs.
but if i used bulk bees on a 3 frame full length frame on med 24oz cup of bees that is 3/4 of a court or a pint and a half of bees is plenty with no brood
If deep 3 fr nuc I would use a quart of bees with no brood
That is if doing in early spring
I've made the mistake in the past of provisioning 4 frame deep nucs with a frame of brood (or two) plus food frames and a feeder only to check on them and find most of the bees gone the next day or two. Nothing quite so exciting as having all the grafting effort down the toilet plus weaker colonies post donation and a bunch of dead brood. This happened when it was really hot out and I couldn't stand the idea of closing up the nucs. I was working a full time job at the time and ran out of the time needed to relocate the nucs. This year I will use vented equipment that I can close if needed.
Velbert - Have you ever tried the Shamrocks? They seem rather expensive but they could pay for themselves especially if over-wintered with the last crop of queens over warm colonies. I'm considering purchasing 15 because I never get more that 55 grafts out of 57 to take, so that would be enough to have continuous grafting during the peak season. The mated queens would be transfered into larger nucs and production colonies with the Shamrocks making locating and marking a lot easier.
Let me go back to your shaker box set up. Once the bees are shaken do you slide a lid over the screened box until ready? Do you just scoop the bees out of there with a styrofoam cup?
I've seen really nice funnels that go on top of the screened box assembly.
I place a styrofoam feeder from dadants on top of shaker box, an place a bee tight top on that and put in feed 1 gallon in it and let them stay a day or two queenless and usally the feeder is empty and i just lift up the feeder and scoop up the bees in my cup off the bottom of feeder and I usally do it after dark I have a small 8 x 10 air condition building with a red light. and they dont fly out as bad
I always make up my nuc in early spring have had not problem with them leaving if you have a frame of brood in them. Let them stay queens for a day or two in the shaker box and then they have the wants of the brood and queen or q cell
Do you shake one colony at a time and look for the queen on top of the excluder before moving on or do you try and locate the queens first?
Yes one hive at a time
I started just placing the brood box (with bees) on the shell with the queen excluder nailed to the bottom and use my fume board with bee go and drive the bees down they don't go all out but a big ball will form under the bottom, so after a while I just raise the brood box up a bit (2 or 3 inches) and drop it to jare the bees off set off the box then move the fume board down on the shell with q Exclude this will run the worker bees through and the queen and drones cant get through. Then look good for the queen and dump the drones back onto the hive they came from just in cast the queen could have been there and always check back in 2-3 days to make sure they have a queen and have not started Emergence queen cells. do this until you have what you think you need. I will spray the light made syrup or watered down HFCS on the bees in the shaker box before i shank or drive in more bees. If Real hot don't spray to much give them time to clean up some (before you spray more)you don't want to smother them. Usually the new bees being shook in or you drive down will help clean the other bees then repeat with each different hive you collect bees out of.
Thanks. I will start by building a screened box for shaking.
I have read through the thread and all is correct with the techniques discussed. While this may or may not be a problem in your area, the hive beetle loves to chomp and destroy baby nucs. Not enough bees are living in baby nucs to keep the pest at bay. We used to use them to raise queens, about 2000 baby nucs. Well, we had to go to four frame nucs to raise queens. A size nuc that has a big enough bee population to defend the nest against hive beetle. Our experience with baby nucs is that they are beetle food. TK
I hope we don't get that beetle. Being a beekeeper reminds me of a verse in the Bible about storing up treasures on Earth that the moth, thief and rust will destroy. I'm waiting for the import of the Japanese hornet.
I hope you do not get it either. Since you do not have it now, then you are one of the fortunate few left that has not experienced it's wrath. Nor do I want the Japanese hornet. TK
Enjoyed this thread. Doing this years first grafts Friday. We're in prime shb territory. Planning to use 5 frame deeps for mating nucs. Any thoughts on not using a frame of brood when making up the nuc and placing ripe cell. Bad idea? Will it work if kept closed up a few days? Trying to Max resources
Buffalo Lick Farm & Nursery
Get your bulk bees so the can stay queen less for a day or 2
I have used a 2 day old virgins introduced in a queen cage (NO WORKERS IN CAGE) with a good amount of candy so it will take them a while to chew her out Make sure you get the queen and cage into the hive on her 2 day after emerging they seem to except them better
When a queen first hatches she has no pheromone (the bees don't pay much attention to her are not as likely to kill her) and at the end of the 3rd day she gets her pheromone then the bees will start taking care of her are more likely to stay with her in your hive.
This way you can get by leaving plugged only a good day or 2
Make sure the bulk bees have been queenless for 24-48 hours and feed, this way they are begging for a new momma queen got there bellies full and ready to build comb
If using a rip Queen cell leave plugged for 3 days after the cell has hatched that is why it is important to keep track of your time of breeder laying eggs and when you grafted I usually figure this with day 16 Hatch so you don't unplug mating nuc to early
Last edited by Velbert; 03-02-2011 at 08:03 PM. Reason: added content
Plugging up a nuc makes sense but what about during hot weather? Do you cover with screen so they get a draft?
For a 5 frame nuc place in a good shade and only use about a quart of bees and have feed inside giving them something to do
screen on top for some air flow that way you can keep the top raised about 1/2 inch for air flow then screen the bottom entrance also I usually use #8 hardware cloth for both
and this will depend on how cool it is when you do this if early and cool you may get by with just the entrance screened
I have AC building That I place mine in I know you might not have this available to you. So they need to be in a all day shaded place.
and when you open them up do it after dark so they will be able to exit in the morning this helps them from all rushing out and being confused
If you don't have a cooled dark place to keep them in I would not do the rip queen cell leaving them plugged up 4 days out in the yard probably will be disastrous
Go For the Virgin that is 2 days old to introduce into them