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Provisioning new nucs?

10K views 44 replies 10 participants last post by  Velbert 
#1 ·
I have been using 4 frame nucs for several years but am considering 4 way mating boxes. Dadant just added the Shamrock-S 4 way mating boxes to their catalog but I don't know if new frames with foundation and young bees is enough to get started. I have read on this site over the years that some get away with a handful of bees and a queen while others provision heavily. My experience with 4 frame nucs is that the more provisions the better the odds of success. I know you have to keep an eye on mating boxes because they can expand quickly but my question is more toward initial set up. Could I get 10 Shamrock boxes, shake in a bunch of bees, add mated queens (to get them started) drive then a couple miles away and have success or is it better to have a colony draw out the Shamrock on top and then use it for queen rearing?
Lets assume good weather and a nectar flow plus a feeder and a patty.
 
#5 ·
Very interesting. So using mated queens might be a faster way to get started. I had hoped to add mated queens until the nucs were up and running and then replace with cells from my own operation while using the mated queens to requeen production colonies.
 
#6 ·
shake out your bees into one container (i run my shook bees through a queen excluder this way they are all workers and no drones or queen)and let bees stay queen less all day and then place in the Mini compartments in late evening just before dusk i have me a hand spray bottle (with a very light mixture of sugar water) i spray down the bees a few times before dipping up my 24 oz cup of bees that is not 24oz of bees but a cup that holds 24 oz of liquid = 1 1/2 pints of bees

its Better to Make you a box (shaker Box out of ripped 2 x 4 with 1/8" hardware cloth covering it on all sides) ) to hold your shook bees (10-20 lbs) of bees in, make it the size where you can set a brood shell on top to funnel the bees into it, also Place a queen excluder on the shell and run your bees through it. When i get my bees shook in remove the brood shell and excluder. Then place a hive top feeder on top of the shaker box. Some Time i will let them stay in the shaker box a day or two with plenty to eat and gorging on feed they are ready to produce wax and start building wax on your new frames

place your caged mated queen into the compartment after you pour in the bees always spray the bees with you sugar water make a very light sugar water this will help keep them from flying
 
#10 · (Edited)
Velbert, how do you start mating nucs with bulk bees this time of year? How many bees?

mike
I use a 12oz styrofoam cup of bees for new starts (not 12oz of bees but a cup that holds 12oz of liquid) and a ripe queen cell ( within 6-12 hrs of hatching) on new foundation and leave them close till the queen is 3 days old from hatch date and leave in a nice dark cool place, then at the end of the 4th day from placing ripe queen cell in at dusk move to location and open up

The 4 frame top bar Mini Nuc that made it through winter i will divide them in half to start more and give them a ripe queen cell and place them on location and open up so they can fly out to work
 
#15 ·
Velbert

Nice pic of your shaker box setup.

Nnow that you have your say 10lbs of bees with queen, as you say they are ready to draw comb, do you dump the whole contents into a std deep brood box to finish? or add foundation frames to the screened box?

I don't follow how the mating hive enters into it unless you further diveie them?

Thankx

Jack
 
#16 · (Edited)
These Bulk Bees are used to stock several mini mating nucs 12oz cup of bees with a laying queen or a ripe queen cell for the 4 frame top bar from www.beeworks.com put feed inside also


or if stocking the shamrock 4 way deeps use at least a 24oz cup of bees with a laying queen or ripe q cell and put feed inside also

Go back and start reading from the 1st post there is more info there just reading 2 or 3 post it can become confusing
 
#17 ·
What's the minimal amount of bees that you would place in a 5 frame medium nuc with or without a mated queen?

I want to start a handful of overwintered queens this year. I'd like to start without a brood frames, since I don't have a lot of resources. But, I don't know how successful I'd be.

More tips would be great.

Thanks
 
#19 · (Edited)
'More tips would be great'. ditto! I like the way you explain WITH PICS!

Q. Your shake box fits over a deep super?

Q. The Shamrock or other 4-ways for heat sharing or efficient use of eq both?

Q. Can you buy the small frames/foundation separately if you want to make box?

Q. How do you feed mating nucs? where do they have/get their provisions?

Q. After Qn is mated & you are finished w/nuc just combine bees w/another hive?

I am in Fingerlakes/Rochester area of NY. Temperatures are pretty cold here till late May.
Q. Do you stack for heat help? what do you recommend?

A pic by pic Queen Rearing course with this method would make me smile for a mile.:popcorn:
 
#23 · (Edited)
Good Strong hive can get 3-4 lbs and if you shake 4 or 5 hives you have a good amout of bees. 4-Quarts of bees is a bit over 3lb of bees.

If you stock the 4 frame shamrock 4 way deep and us 24 ounce cup of bees out of 20 lbs of bees from 5 hive you can make up about 20-25 Mating nuc

now the mine styrafome with 12 oz cup of bees you can make up 50-55 mini nuc
 
#25 ·
Just a question, Velbert - How much volume of bees would you add for mating nucs if you were using standard Langstroth deep brood hives divided to make three 3-frame mating nucs? I'd tend to think you'd prefer a set amount of bees per new queen, but the environment does come into play. Maybe you just want them crowded? My intent is to make increase colonies / overwintered nucs.
 
#27 ·
I usally use 1 frame of brood about 1/2 to 2/3 of the cells with brood and bees to cover it real good to keep them warm.

but if i used bulk bees on a 3 frame full length frame on med 24oz cup of bees that is 3/4 of a court or a pint and a half of bees is plenty with no brood

If deep 3 fr nuc I would use a quart of bees with no brood


That is if doing in early spring
 
#28 ·
I've made the mistake in the past of provisioning 4 frame deep nucs with a frame of brood (or two) plus food frames and a feeder only to check on them and find most of the bees gone the next day or two. Nothing quite so exciting as having all the grafting effort down the toilet plus weaker colonies post donation and a bunch of dead brood. This happened when it was really hot out and I couldn't stand the idea of closing up the nucs. I was working a full time job at the time and ran out of the time needed to relocate the nucs. This year I will use vented equipment that I can close if needed.
Velbert - Have you ever tried the Shamrocks? They seem rather expensive but they could pay for themselves especially if over-wintered with the last crop of queens over warm colonies. I'm considering purchasing 15 because I never get more that 55 grafts out of 57 to take, so that would be enough to have continuous grafting during the peak season. The mated queens would be transfered into larger nucs and production colonies with the Shamrocks making locating and marking a lot easier.
 
#29 ·
Velbert,

Let me go back to your shaker box set up. Once the bees are shaken do you slide a lid over the screened box until ready? Do you just scoop the bees out of there with a styrofoam cup?

I've seen really nice funnels that go on top of the screened box assembly.
 
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