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  1. #1
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    Default Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    08 February 2011
    We made this video today to show the progress in our field trials.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRCN5Lg9RoY

    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    Interesting. I do have a few questions (of which I'm sure you will answer none of, but it feels better to at least put it out there).

    1. What is the protein and sugar content?

    So far all I've seen is the initial "watch them be interested in it" videos, followed by your posts about how fast they are consuming it. This could be from a multitude of reasons (as I'm sure you are aware).

    2. Do you have any information, pictures, videos, or anything else showing how fast they build up as a result?

    You've mentioned in the video that you are putting on your formulas one after another, giving one syrup in a bag followed by your formula, then giving one formula after another. How can you be certain which one of the feeds you are giving the same hive is having a beneficial effect?

    3. What information do you have that this or any of your hives are actually benefiting the health of the bees? Putting amino acids, vitamins, and minerals is great, but if you arn't sure they are being used properly it is essentially all for not.

    4. Are any of these products actually increasing the lifespan of the bee?

    5. Are you trying to take it to market?

    6. If so, in going to market are you going to disclose it's nutritional value (not the formula)?

    7. If so, are you going to be interested in distributing it in patty or powder?

    8. Are you looking at taking proper steps to 'protect' your formula, whether or not you go to market?

    It might be a good idea to talk to a patent attorney (or someone who is generally familiar with it) as just keeping your mouth shut can only protect you so far.

    Other than that, I would obviously be interested in help getting a better feed, but I guess that's out of the question.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    He keeps posting these teaser videos and no purchasing info or vague recipe. Come on, this is legalized torture!
    Please check out the new kingfisherapiaries.com!
    Like us on Facebook

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    Thank you for your continued interest in our bee nutritional work.
    It's been a very long day and I/we will get some answers to you hopefully on this Wednesday.
    Thank you,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    I may be able to answer a few questions. For any feed, nutrient or patty to be effective, we need to have acceptance. So far, the bees have accepted all three mixtures very well, above our expectations. Some observations, for backing, plastic seems to work better than paper, why, I have no idea. SHB should not be a problem, the bees seem to eat it as fast as we can dole it out. No left overs sitting around.

    Can we use it to deliver other products, I think so, like essential oils, medications, ETC. The vitamin and mineral content is quite high for the average (patty) The protein and carb % can be altered with ease. 5, 10, 20 or 40 % for either. The PH is very acidic, around 5 or so, that also can be changed easily. It is on the heavy side, over 10 lbs per gallon. We have several test hives at one time, some get all three, and some get only one, with several combinations in between.

    The build up looks real nice so far. We have Italians, Russians and Carniolans in the mix. The first mixture was not intended to replace the (normal patty) but as a booster if you would. However, by raising the protein to well over 20% we may just start running several hives on the new mix alone. We plan on keeping the minerals, vitamins, oils, lipids, amino acids on the high end of things for the next three weeks.

    As far as increasing the life span of the bees, it's only been a few weeks. Only time will tell. Bees are, well, living animals, we hope. And all living animals need vitamins, minerals, carbs and protein.

    It is not a patty or powder, it's more of a paste. But the formulation can be changed.

    Getting a better feed is not out of the question, thats what the work is all about. R&D and observations. I too want a better bee feed. You can put all kinds of goodies in the hive, if the bees don't eat it, well, that is all for not. I hope this helps a bit.

    Thanks, Wayne.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    09 February 2011
    RE:

    Interesting. I do have a few questions (of which I'm sure you will answer none of, but it feels better to at least put it out there).
    ________________________________________________

    Let's have a positive attitude about answering questions.
    We are addressing the new formulation,s.
    The time and materials dedicated to this product can be quite involved.

    FYI:This information was taken off another product that is on the market:
    Honeybee Nutritional Supplement
    Natural high protein pollen substitute containing minerals, lipids, vitamins and carbohydrates to boost brood production and promote colony health.
    Nutritional Analysis:
    Carbohydrates 47%
    Moisture 7%
    Protein 40%
    Fat 4%
    Ash 2%
    CONTENTS: The contents are not listed.
    __________________
    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
    For any feed, nutrient or patty to be effective, we need to have acceptance.
    Very true, as acceptance is a crucial element of any feed. However, all I'm seeing is acceptance rate. I'm not seeing anything about nutritional benefits, health benefits, cost, or what not. I can throw antifreeze out and my dog would accept it rather well, that doesn't mean it's helping him. I'm IN NO WAY comparing your product to antifreeze, I'm just making sure that we are clear that acceptance is not the only element that we need to be looking at.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
    The protein and carb % can be altered with ease. 5, 10, 20 or 40 % for either. The PH is very acidic, around 5 or so, that also can be changed easily.
    So . . . it depends?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
    We have several test hives at one time, some get all three, and some get only one, with several combinations in between.
    I think that was kinda my point. If you feed formula A to a hive and they accept it rather well, their expectations or need as a result of formula A will result their acceptance of formula B, if you put it on right afterwords. I was just trying to make sure that you were aware of this, as I'm sure you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
    As far as increasing the life span of the bees, it's only been a few weeks. Only time will tell. ... And all living animals need vitamins, minerals, carbs and protein.
    That's what I was expecting, but I heard on one of the videos a comment about possibly "going to market." Obviously this would need more testing, but I wasn't aware what testing and information you have compiled as of yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
    You can put all kinds of goodies in the hive, if the bees don't eat it, well, that is all for not.
    Yes Wayne, that was helpful, but I'm seeing a very large emphasis on acceptance rates alone. I understand that you are taking several other considerations into question, but it just isn't coming out on this end. Sure, you can put all kinds of goodies in the hive, but if the bees don't eat it it's all for nothing. But you can buy a great feed that is highly consumed and accepted, but if it doesn't help the hive it's all for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Let's have a positive attitude about answering questions.
    Sorry Ernie. It just gets a little old to have videos, pictures, and comments coming in such as "Formula A is being accepted well!", "New additive to Formula B!", "New Delivery Method to Formula C", or "New design to Formula D" and you don't appear to be interested discussing any questions, comments, or explanations on what you are doing. It seems pointless to have these threads (at time) other than to boast. And you've been known for that Ernie. (No offense intended)

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    The time and materials dedicated to this product can be quite involved.
    Without a doubt. No one is saying you should be sharing all of your information to everyone on the web. No one is saying that you shouldn't be reimbursed for your time, efforts, and materials that you put into it. But there is a difference between keeping your mouth shut and developing a new patty formula (either for your own use or for marketing use), and waving your formula in front of everyone's face, then ignoring everyone when they ask what's up with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    FYI:This information was taken off another product that is on the market:
    . . .
    CONTENTS: The contents are not listed.
    You kinda played right into it Ernie. When asked what your protein, vitamin, and fat levels are, you copied and pasted what the protein rates were of another product on the market. No one asked about that. I just asked what is different about your product. The contents and levels of a comparable product doesn't really have anything to do with your product, other than to claim that you are doing the same thing they are. In which case, they have much more R&D in their product, so why would you compare it to that?

    Not trying to be aggressive or insulting. I'm just explaining the frustration that I think many individuals on this site have. If you are posting this information in an attempt to help others find out their own formulas, fantastic. But you haven't answered any questions. So then maybe you are trying to keep everyone interested in the event you try to sell the product. That really isn't fair to everyone on here. The last possible reason is that you are looking to do some free advertising on the site for your current (or future) product. I believe this is against the rules of the site.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    re: Your staement.

    Not trying to be aggressive or insulting.
    I notice that the majority of your postings end in the above words or wording.
    _________________________________________________

    I'm just explaining the frustration that I think many individuals on this site have. If you are posting this information in an attempt to help others find out their own formulas, fantastic.
    RE: frustration. Lets see you put out some data or videos instead of just typing messages.
    ____________________________________


    But you haven't answered any questions.
    I provided more answers than are neccessary.
    ____________________________________

    So then maybe you are trying to keep everyone interested in the event you try to sell the product.
    Really
    __________________________

    That really isn't fair to everyone on here.
    It's more fair than the real world.
    _____________________________________

    The last possible reason is that you are looking to do some free advertising on the site for your current (or future) product. I believe this is against the rules of the site.

    Believe me, I am not advertising. As far as the rules of the site go, you might want to review them for yourself.
    ___________________________________

    The sample Nutritional label was an example of the real world.
    __________________________________________________ ___

    Most of your postings belong in TailGater!

    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    RE:
    You kinda played right into it Ernie. When asked what your protein, vitamin, and fat levels are, you copied and pasted what the protein rates were of another product on the market. No one asked about that. I just asked what is different about your product. The contents and levels of a comparable product doesn't really have anything to do with your product, other than to claim that you are doing the same thing they are. In which case, they have much more R&D in their product, so why would you compare it to that?

    You do not get that information because it's not available to you.
    You can wait and wait.
    I have samples of the product sent out to other parties that are interested in doing field trials in some other geographical locations and those results can not be released until the trials are completed.
    Please do not make inuendos or "other" .
    BTY? How many hives do you have under your care?
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher Apiaries View Post
    no purchasing info
    This is not the For Sale forum. If I smell any advertising in any of this, action will be taken.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    I am not selling a product.
    I am simply trying to share the results of our work on feeding bees.
    If, and that would be much later, I would post a product for sale in the For Sale section.
    I happen to be very enthusiastic about the material.
    I am getting a little tired of the same people trying to shred my postings or making inuendos
    I think that's a form of repeated verbal attacks!

    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    SpecialKayme, tell us what you need in a feed for NC. High protein? High mineral or vitamin content. I would love to send you some to test out yourself. Without acceptance, we have nothing, that is the single most important aspect of any feed, bar none. After that, it becomes much easier. Send me a msg, I'll send you a few pounds. Not a prob. I would love to have a few beeks try out the mix. We really do need more input on these formulations.

    Thanks

    Wayne.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    I think i have to agree with SpecialKay. I am not trying to insult you. What good does it do to read about something that we have no idea what it is?
    Please check out the new kingfisherapiaries.com!
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Not trying to be aggressive or insulting.
    I notice that the majority of your postings end in the above words or wording.
    I'm aware that the wording of my posts often can sound aggressive or insulting. I'm at least trying to rectify the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Lets see you put out some data or videos instead of just typing messages.
    1. Calm down Ernie.

    2. I don't have anything to take videos of. If you would like for me to make video's of bees drinking water I can, but I don't think anyone would really care. What does my posting videos have anything to do with the topic of this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    You do not get that information because it's not available to you.
    You can wait and wait.
    I've stated over and over again, I'm not interested in your product. I don't want your information to copy it. I'm sorry if you feel that I'm trying to manipulate you and extract information from you, because I'm not.

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    BTY? How many hives do you have under your care?
    10 going into the winter. Last check I might have lost 3, not sure yet (still a little chilly in this part.

    Do you mind if I ask why you asked?

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    I happen to be very enthusiastic about the material.
    Haha, there you go! I think that just clarified everything. I mistook your threads for boasting, bragging, conveying information (without conveying information) or potential future advertising.

    I was wrong. I'm sorry. You are just very proud and excited about the potential uses of your formulas. Fantastic!

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    I think that's a form of repeated verbal attacks!
    Ernie, just remember when you put something out there, you leave it open to criticism, conjecture, and comments. I would really enjoy it if you kept the information coming, but please be patient in their interpretation.

    Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but if you found my posts a form of "verbal attacks!" how do you think I'm supposed to interpret your post #8?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
    Send me a msg . . . We really do need more input on these formulations.
    PM will be sent shortly. Thank you for remaining patient with me (you as well Ernie).

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Feeding our new Nutitional Gel

    New Nutritional Gel

    Contains 100% more mystery than the other brands...
    BeeCurious
    5 hives and 8 nucs................... Trying to think inside the box...

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