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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lake County Illinois
    Posts
    261

    Default 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    I ran out of 1-1/4 inch nails for assembling frames. I started using the 4d finish nails, which are 1-1/2 long, but not the larger head. I put a couple together, and pulled and could not take them apart. I tried the suggested nails and I could pull the frame apart.

    I also ran some smaller nails into the sides for added support. Anyone have experience with the finish nails?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    I have had experience with brads and finish nails. I will never use them again.
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 02-10-2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Unnecessary comment
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lima, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    726

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    I can't say I've tried finish nails, but I did assemble some with 1 1/4" brad nail using a nail gun years ago. They did work ok, but pulled out more easily in soft pine than regular nails. I really couldn't tell the difference in hardwood frames however.

    The biggest problem I've seen with frames from other beekeepers I've obtained over the years, was usually not the size or type of nail, but when they didn't put a nail though the sidebar into the top bar. Forget that critical nail and any nail will eventually pull out.

    Any more I use a staple. Easier (with a gun) and stronger.

    -Tim

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lake County Illinois
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    Be so kind to enlighten me as to what you use now, and why no finish nails.


    Thanks.
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 02-10-2011 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Keeping posts on topic

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    1 1/2 staples and glue, even in the bottom bar
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,593

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    Glue will hold more than nails. Glue them and then nail them. Also, standard construction technique is that you don't every depend on nails not to pull, you depend on them not to shear. That means the nail goes at right angles to the force you are trying to hold against. In the case of frames this is a nail through the end bar into the top bar, not through the top bar down into the end bar. The only real purpose in the nail down into the end bar is to suck the top bar up tight so you can get the nail from the end bar into the top bar in the right place...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,113

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    I only have a Brad Nailer so I use wire type brad
    and X nail them Like in the picture the Blue lines= Brad
    also not good at Draw MS-Paint anyway Blue or yellow
    is the way I nail them
    I also use Glue

    Tommyt


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Dorset, Vermont
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    MB points out: "The only real purpose in the nail down into the end bar is to suck the top bar up tight so you can get the nail from the end bar into the top bar in the right place... "

    To that I would add that if the top bar IS in the right place (if it's not a tap with a hammer will do it) then nail(s) down through the top bar are unnecessary if you are nailing horizontally through the end bar into the top bar.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,858

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    I've used the standard nails that come with the frames with good success. And I cannot pull them apart. Perhaps because the nails are coated with some kind of resin.

    I've also used the brad nailers with 1-1/4" brads in top bar and prefer the speed, but they look awfully frail. These I can pull apart fairly easily.

    Either way, I cannot justify omitting the side nail, and my preference is to use the brad nailer with a 3/4" brad. Fast and secure. Really good on grooved top bars when using plastic foundation snapped into wood frames.

    Glue? Absolutely not! I end up with glue all over my fingers, my pants, my elbow, in my hair, all over the work bench. I joined the adhesively-challenged support group and they kicked me out saying I was hopeless. Gave me a box of brads as a going-away present.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sullivan, MO
    Posts
    901

    Default Re: 4d finish nails for frame assembly?

    I don't know about anyone else, but on Mannlake's new design of frames I can't get a nail to go into the top bar from the side. Used to I would take my staple/nail gun and put it on the side right up against the top bar and it would go in about 1/4 in from bottom of top bar, but now it misses the top bar completely. I guess that's their improvement???

    Rod

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