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No feeding, no treatments,

21K views 120 replies 31 participants last post by  NewBee2007 
#1 ·
not opening the hive more than twice a year (warre). What are the chances my first hive of bee's survive the winter?
 
#5 · (Edited)
I'd say it is impossible to say "pretty good." The most anyone can say with any certainty is that they will either survive or die. They may not need us, but once we take a package of bees and dump them into an enclosure of our choosing, they are there on our terms, we've put them into a situation where, for some period of time perhaps, they may need us. Can you guarantee there will be a natural source of food during their early build-up period? The strongest strain of bees can not survive without nutrition. Can you guarantee there will be no mite build-up? Will you even know?

There are those that feel bees either survive on their own or deserve to die. You are setting up the conditions that requires this philosophy. While the best observer can tell a lot by watching the foragers entering the hive, there is a lot going on in the hive unseen, conditions developing that, if addressed, could save a hive. Personally, I don't like bees dying because of what I would perceive as my neglect.

What success are others with the same hive and same type of practices in your area having? Without specifics, I'd say your odds of success are 50-50 at best riight now. Best of luck, though.

Wayne
 
#6 ·
I dont understand why you would bother having bees if your only going to "open" the hive twice a year. As previously mentioned there are many factors amd maladies that come into play regarding the colonies survival throughout the ENTIRE year not just their "first winter".....good luck... just because they are housed in a warre hive does not guarantee your bees survival!!!!

The comment "we need bees, bees dont need us".....Absurd statement....yes we need bees, we are dependant on bees and IMO should one take on the responsibility of keeping bees they should also commit to properly managing the colony and providing assistance and care when neccesary....you cant provide that level of assitance and care opening the box twice a year. :no:
 
#8 ·
and IMO should one take on the responsibility of keeping bees they should also commit to properly managing the colony and providing assistance and care when neccesary....you cant provide that level of assitance and care opening the box twice a year. :no:
This is a very subjective statement. I suppose if you were to treat your bees the same as you would your child, one would be into their hive most frequently. However, given that they are insects which have managed to live without our help for a very long time, I'm more inclined to disturb them less, rather than more. I don't inspect my hives near as often as I did when I first started out.

Subjective I say!
 
#7 ·
I agree with Specialkayme. To many factors to even throw out a WAG. Did you start with a package or a swarm? (They are NOT the same.) As to are you doing the right thing (Which I realize you didn't ask.) - depends on your reasons for having bees. Are you running an experiment to see what happens? Are you planning to harvest honey? Are you a bee keeper in the classic sense or a bee observer?

JC
 
#9 ·
Ok then there's pretty good chance they will live. On the other hand there's a pretty good chance they might die. My money is on the bee. My hive's have an exit both top and bottom, if they don't like the place I provide they can leave an time. some do.
Most of my hive's are cut outs, which were doing just fine on there own. go bees
 
#10 ·
Barry says, they are insects that have managed to live without our help for a very long time.

While this was true in the past,things have changed now that mites,shb, and many other things that have come into play, starting somewhere in the early 80's.Before the eighties was the good old days fore me, right now is the good old days for new beekeepers starting in.Kind of makes you wonder what's ahead in another thirty years or less doesn't it.:s Jack
 
#18 ·
I wish all my hives were feral bees. They would most likley bee more independent. Which came first the bee or the beekeeper. I'm amazed the bee hasn't disapeared with out man :lpf: We don't want chineese honey that has chemicals in it, But we want to put chemicals in our own hive's:scratch:
 
#14 ·
I'll let you know how it goes.

If they do make it, then they will technically be 1st generation survivor bee's - and stronger than many bee's that need a lot of intervention.

If they don't make it - then they weren't strong enough.

Last time we had a warm spell, they looked pretty strong.
 
#22 ·
If they do make it, then they will technically be 1st generation survivor bee's - and stronger than many bee's that need a lot of intervention.
I guess you can make that leap, but I don't know if one year of winter survival would lead one to believe that they are stronger than many bees.

Mike Palmer, would you suggest rearing queens from a colony that survived one winter?
 
#19 ·
We would have to remove man from earth.
I'm not talking about all of mankind. I'm talking about you. We are all individuals, making individual contributions to the bees. If you think Man is having a detrimental contribution, then you by default are making a detrimental contribution. If you think the right thing to do would be to leave the bees alone, why not start by doing just that?

It's easy to point fingers, it's much harder to do something about it.
 
#20 ·
We need more data. What are the statistics on survival of hives only opened twice per year?

W/out hard data, it's a crap shoot.

I'm laying my money down on survive. W/ a side bet of some will die and some will live. Only having one means you are more than likely to be out of business, if one dies.

Warre or not, I don't know if that makes any difference. I'm not familiar w/ that style of hive.
 
#28 ·
Bees biggest problem is man
pestisides, helping transport mites and shb and harvesting to much honey. Every one here besides Barry seem to think that the honey bee can not survive if we don't open the hive every week. Regardless of what every one may think the Honey bee will survive with out Man.
 
#34 ·
I check my hives at least once a month. True most of my bees are from cut outs. I cut them out or they die. One home owner said he knew the bees had been there 3 years, I have had them for 3 years without any treatment of any kind. Six years does this make them surviver stock. I also have a number of others that are five years without treatment. would they be surviver stock.
I plan on making that Bullet Proof queen. :popcorn:
 
#35 ·
Barry I dont think Michael is "inferring that bees that are minimally managed are more unhealthy than managed hives"

The way I read it is that Michael is more concerned that if the minimally managed hive gets disease like AFB it could be 6 months before it's noticed.

In that time It's probably become weak enough to be robbed out by the strong managed hives down the road. and Hey Presto you have a big AFB outbreak in your yard!

The guy that looks into his hives more often catches the AFB before it's got real bad and deals with the problem.

frazz
 
#41 ·
The way I read it is that Michael is more concerned that if the minimally managed hive gets disease like AFB it could be 6 months before it's noticed.
What about all those "feral" hives, hives in walls, eves, trees, etc. that receive no management? Are these the wellsprings of AFB? I think not. While I don't have hard data in print to go by, I think it's safe to say that overwhelmingly the vast majority of AFB cases come from commercial outfits, not feral or hobby hives.
 
#36 ·
It's a crap shoot. If you started out with healthy bees the odds are better than 50% they will survive the first winter. But the odds are lower than 50% they will make the second winter.

If you have bees that have been commercially bred for mite resistance, and especially mite related diseases resistance, then your odds go up. If your hive swarms and you don't know if the new queen mated, or if they've stowed enough honey for the winter, your odds go down. If they contract AFB and you don't know it your odds drop to around zero.
 
#47 ·
Here the AFB problems are overwhelmingly hobbyists, combined with feral deadouts in the bush that get a new swarm in every so often that's starts the whole cycle over again when it dies and leaves new AFB infested honey to be robbed.

There have over the years been some "commercial" beekeepers with out of control AFB, each case I can think of has been a hobbyist who has grown to large numbers, without enough experience or having worked in a beekeeping business. It's all got too hard and turned to custard and none of the ones I can think of are still around, their hives were bought and cleaned up by neighboring commercial beekeepers.
 
#48 ·
In the four commercial operations that I personally know of, any sign or suspect AFB comb or hive is burned right away to prevent the spread. As an instructor, I can say that I have seen AFB in some of my students hives and getting them to burn their only hive or one of two to prevent the spread is very tough and some just won't do it, so when those hives swarm the AFB goes with them. I am not sure were this data that the majority of AFB cases are commercial. I suspect that most the reported AFB cases are from commercial guys that report statistics but only because most hobby and no feral hives that I know of file these type of reports.
 
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