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  1. #1

    Default Formic Acid application

    Ok sideliners and commercials, anybody got a good tried and true method for mixing/diluting and applying formic acid?

    I'll take any other good suggestions for nuking trach mites, I know of grease patties and menthol. What I really need to hear is some commercially viable, and effective methods though!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    For diluting formic acid, I'm assuming you're talking about the 85% stuff? If so , then 3 parts formic acid to 1 part water. Then the formic will have been diluted to 65% or close enough.

    Afterwards I'll place 200 meat soaker pads, the kind that can hold 45 ml up on end in a 15 kg bucket (2 gallons) I'll then put 7 liters of formic acid in the bucket, that's 3 and a half large bottles of soda. When I do this I just pour it over the meat soaker pads then pop the lid on. By the time you get to the yard the formic is more or less absorbed.

    Just before placing the pads on the bees I'll dump the whole lot of them into a bucket that has had holes drilled into the bottom. This way the excess formic does not drip onto the bees. Place another bucket below the one with the drilled holes to catch the excess formic.

    Place 1 pad per hive every week for 3 weeks. That will take care of your traceal mites. I will also feed the hives once the lids are off. All my hives have a frame feeder.

    Jean-Marc

  3. #3

    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    What sort of temperatures are needed? Also, do you require a rim, or will the meat pads fit fine between boxes? I presume the fumes are heavier than air.

  4. #4
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    Seattle, WA
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Quote Originally Posted by Skinner Apiaries View Post
    Ok sideliners and commercials, anybody got a good tried and true method for mixing/diluting and applying formic acid?

    I'll take any other good suggestions for nuking trach mites, I know of grease patties and menthol. What I really need to hear is some commercially viable, and effective methods though!

    Vi x Ci = Vf x Cf

    Initial volume x Initial concentration = Final volume x final concentration

    Since you know the initial volume and concentration, and what you want the final concentration to be, solve for final volume and that will tell you how much water to add.

    SLOWLY add ACID to WATER...never the other way around

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Wit the meat soaker pads, they are placed between the lid and the top box, no need for a rim. Temperatures should be warm, I think above 65 F and not excessively hot, so below 90F. The fumes are heavier than air. Once I placed the pads between the boxws, but it is way too much work.

    Formic will take care of any tracheal mite problems.

    Jean-Marc

  6. #6
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    VENTURA, California, USA
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Thanks for the information.
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    A good way to check the accuracy of your mixture is by checking the specific gravity of the liquid with a Hydrometer; a hydrometer measures the difference in gravity (density) between pure water and a liquid.
    Here is a link on how to use one.link
    I bought mine at a beer and wine brewing shop for around $20 (I think)

    Formic acid - 10% 68F 20C 1.025 Specific Gravity
    Formic acid - 50% 68F 20C 1.121 Specific Gravity
    Formic acid - 65% 68F 20C 1.150 Specific Gravity
    Formic acid - 80% 68F 20C 1.186 Specific Gravity
    Formic acid - 90% 68F 20C 1.221 Specific Gravity

    specific-gravity-liquid-fluids

    XXf or XXC= the Tempurature of the liquid being tested

    MSDS sheet for formic interesing info. Link


    I use distilled water to mix with so I do not get any Lime ( hard water) effecting the acid
    Last edited by rkr; 01-31-2011 at 09:32 AM. Reason: added info
    4 seasons 19 Hives-Camp Branch Bee Ranch. Est 2009
    "I am a nobody; nobody is perfect, and therefore I am perfect."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Good point.

    Jean-Marc

  9. #9

    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Thanks guys, that's all very useful.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    One more thing, that probably isnt extremely important, concentration aside, does it matter if it's Lab grade or just the stuff used to make Biodiesel?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Well...... It will be hard to get a strait answer on that one. Some will tell you that the commercial grade stuff has some heavy metals in it and is not good, some will say that the action of the acid is the vapor thus any minute amount of metals like lead will stay in the absorbent medium. You have to decide for yourself what is acceptable.
    4 seasons 19 Hives-Camp Branch Bee Ranch. Est 2009
    "I am a nobody; nobody is perfect, and therefore I am perfect."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    What rkr said..any metals stay in the pad...

  13. #13
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    Thumbs down Re: Formic Acid application

    <<<<<<What rkr said..any metals stay in the pad... >>>>

    Only if you have a sheet plastic under the pad, as soon as you put the pad directly on the wood frames it is a different story.
    Soon or later you have it in wax and honey.

  14. #14
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    Thumbs down Re: Formic Acid application

    Quote Originally Posted by Axtmann View Post
    <<<<<<What rkr said..any metals stay in the pad... >>>>

    Only if you have a sheet plastic under the pad, as soon as you put the pad directly on the wood frames it is a different story.
    Soon or later you have it in wax and honey.
    Never known anyone who would put FA pads on honey frames *rolls eyes*

  15. #15
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    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Megank bees also store honey in brood frames, did you know that? As soon as the queen need more space to lay eggs bees move the honey. Do you think the foundation manufacturer use only wax from honey combs? New wax foundations has been tested in Europe for pesticides and they found almost everything beekeepers put in there hives. If I would use formic, I would only go for the Nassenheider evaporator or for the Dr. Liebig system.

    http://www.biovet.ch/en/Imkerei/liebig-dispenser.html
    http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cus...senheider.html

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    OK..People have been using industrial FA for years...Have there been cases where FA has contamininated Honey with heavy metals beyand the limits found harmful?

    I doubt it...

  17. #17
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    Leetonia, Ohio
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    What is the effect on varroa with this treatment.

  18. #18
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    Nov 2009
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    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
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    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    How many of you know about the soon to be new Formic Acid Mite Away Quick Strips. I just read about them in an article where Randy Oliver had tested them. He called them the new silver bullet. Might be pricey for a commercial beek but are supposed to be very easy to use which means time might even out the costs.
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  19. #19
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    Oregon City, Oregon
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    991

    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    Silver bullet would be good if it will ever get past the govs. shield of safety, I don't understand why the bee federations and such are so impotent at helping get anything through..
    Honeydew

  20. #20

    Default Re: Formic Acid application

    This is probably grounds for a card or a deleted post, but I heard the guy who bought the company or whatnot and made the new MAQS didnt do the paperwork promptly. Of course you all know how skeptic I am of the EPA, and the rest of the government. Thanks for all the extra info guys. As to the combs and honey, I dont think that even with the top bar you would have and liquid acid dribbling down on the brood combs to contaminate the honey with heavy metals. I alway wonder how those Chinese manage to get lead in their honey that shows up at sue... They must toss car batteries in 5000 gallon tanks, seriously, how DO you screw honey up with heavy metals.

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