.22 Rifle Suggestions

[Risky Beesness]

I have had a similar problem with coyotes, but I don't live in town. However, I do have distant neighbors, and we have a gentlemen's agreement not to hunt. I shot at them with #9 birdshot for several years and they would leave for a while. One morning I watched them as a team, try to lure my big male airedale outside his invisible fence perimeter. He would charge them, but break off as he approached the barrier. They would circle back and try again. I decide right then it was "game on" and declared war against coyotes. I was being woke up nearly every night, right outside my window it seemed.

After some research, I decided on a .17 HMR. It is a 22 magnum load with a .17 calibre expanding bullet. I ended up with a Henry lever action and a 3 x 9 scope. So far, there are 5 less coyotes (3 bitches and 2 males) than there once was, and I think they got the message. I rarely hear them at night and never see them on my property.

[walking bird]

Neil, just a thought--- you're a lawyer, right? Can't you just bore them to death?

[warrior]

Coyotes are fast growing to be a major nuisance species nationwide. Recently one of the first documented human deaths from a coyote attack occurred in New Breton, Canada and for the past decade attacks upon humans, especially small children, have been on a steady increase. Everyone is aware of the small animal disappearances as well and it is an all to common sight throughout any major metropolitan area to cruise the residential neighborhoods and see all the missing cat posters.
This is due to the highly adaptable nature of the chief mezopredator of north america. Mezopredator being a middle predator which includes the raccoon, bobcat and foxes. Historically the apex predators (bears, mountain lions and wolves) kept the coyote restrained and confined to the west. In the absence of the apex predators the coyote has expanded it's range all the way to the east coast from Florida to Cananda and assumed the top role in most ecosystems. Also being a mezopredator the coyote is highly adaptable able to snatch and grab prey and food wherever it finds it. It, more so than the wolf it resembles, has been able to adapt to the urban enviroment and is now a ubiquitous resident of all our cities. We now have a clear example of a species out of place both in location and position with the ensuing havoc.
For the most part individual coyotes and the loose packs (more of an extended familial group then a true pack as in wolves) they form still continue to avoid human contact due to the innate aversion to higher predators but modern society frowns on humans acting as a predator. In our cities coyotes are loosing that innate fear as humans seem to have lost the natural apex predator drive to exercise the right of dominance and drive off the smaller predators. This is where the problems occur. Once an individual coyote, or any other aggressive species for that matter, learns that no harm will come to it as it encroaches this behavior will be enforced and taught to later generations (learned behavior).
For the most part an urban coyote will continue to avoid direct contact with humans but as they traverse the urban landscape close contact is inevitable. At first it is contact in passing as they travel the land and the encounters are brief but as humans continue about their business ignoring or even encouraging close contact (feeding, poor sanitation, creating micro habitats, encouraging explosion of prey specie populations such as rats and mice at bird feeders, providing small prey items like cats and dogs) the behavior of coyotes will change to bring them into even closer contact and the inevitable will occur where the individual coyote not only loses it's natural fear of a higher predator but will look upon us as an easy mark. This is where the trouble starts. Once that individual habituates to this behavior it will spread to it's offspring (learned behavior) unless steps are taken to stop it. This is where I or others like me come into the picture. Of course it all could have been avoided in the first place.
I am not only a trapper but an educator. Of course I must target the problem individual animals and remove them as it is almost impossible to "untrain" bad learned behavior. Actually, to do so risks the sort of bad confrontation we are trying to avoid in the first place. The education comes in the form of teaching my humans (clients) how to stop encouraging coyotes (and other wildlife) from becoming a nuisance in the first place. Among the many items I cover are how to react to seeing a coyote, be the dominant predator scare it off make it think you intend it harm, deny it habitat by removing hiding places and be active in all areas of your domain, do not provide good hunting grounds by keeping small animals restrained and under your control and remove food sources for prey species (get rid of the bird feeders) and practice good sanitation (put a lid on the garbage can and don't leave it out all week), deny them access to come close (fencing, barriers and lighting).
Whatever the case we as a society have created the opportunity for coyotes to thrive and expand and now we as a society need to accept responsibility in managing this species and keep it in it's proper place. I as an individual trapper have a snow ball's chance in hell of ever hoping to resolve coyote conflicts if the rest of society continues on it's present course. All I can do is come in and pick up the pieces. On a case by case basis I am doing my part how about the rest of you?

[NeilV]

WB, they're very patient.

[Risky Beesness]

On a case by case basis I am doing my part how about the rest of you?

I think I am doing my part, too. By removing 3 females, that essentially removed dozens of future pups.

The jackrabbit poulation exploded here in the early 2000's. By 2004, 2005, I could easily count 10 - 15 jackrabbits, while driving up my driveway at night. I think this played a role in the coyotes migrating into my area. The jackrabbits have all but disappeared by 2007, and then we had a 2 year drought. This was about the time the coyotes became more emboldened.

[captahab]

So what are these coyotes doing that requires killing them ?????

[Skinner Apiaries]

The low velosity cartriges such as a cb short will not cycle a semiautomatic like the 10 .22. you will likely need a pump or bolt action for that. I would not shoot cyotes with that round. It is to likely to only wound them you would be better off with your crossbow. Since you already own it that would also be cheaper.

Back when before I was a law abiding citizen, some years ago, a subsonic round would cycle beautifully in a surpessed 10/22. the heavy 2 lb spring of the 50 round clip was no problem either. I'd say the 10/22 is an excellent choice, as it's reliable, easy to repair, and very easy to mod. And, with several hi cap mags on the market, you can easily double tap those dogs. For maximum concealment, fire from within a window of your house, from at least a couple feet inside your house, you'll get alot of your noise bounced back in the house. If you lose your mind, and go with the suppressor, it dosent even matter where you are, you'll only hear the action and the bullet impact for the most part. Anyways, good luck with it!

[Risky Beesness]

So what are these coyotes doing that requires killing them ?????

Because they have no natural predators, they over populated the area. Then after they exhausted natural food sources (the jackrabbits) and decimated all the quail, turkey, and other wildlife populations, they lost their fear of humans, and turn to family pets as a food source. In my case they began to boldly approach my house in broad daylight, harassing my dogs and trying to lure them out to where the pack could kill them. This is abnormal behavior and is the result of their population going unchecked.

I have no problem with coyotes in a natural state, but that is no longer the case. When coyote numbers were kept in check by predation and hunting, these problems didn't exist. I'm just fortunate that I live somewhere that I can be proactive. I have several friends that live in suburban neighborhoods that do not have that luxury.

[NeilV]

Is not a matter of "deserving" anything. It's a matter of a reasonable person not wanting a pack of wild dogs in the yard doing the sorts of things just described -- eating chickens, trying to catch my cats, eating the neighbor's dog, taunting my dogs, cleaning out every other species on the ground, approaching people. In my situation, there are about 5 coyotes in about a 50 acre area.

[warrior]

So what are these coyotes doing that requires killing them ?????

Perhaps you didn't read my post or have come to this thread with the answer already firmly in place. If the former please stop a moment to clear your mind and read of actual in the field hands on experience with wildlife strectching back over a lifetime, if the latter then please leave those of us in the real world to or simple little devices and deceits since we are to dense to understand what is plain to you.

Well let's see there was the one that was caught in flagrante delicto with canines (teeth) in the canine(jack russell), cat parts and gore galore and to much to really mention, then there was the three who stood their ground against a full grown man, the grounds keeper who was reporting massive vandalism to the authorities and losing money day by day until candid camera caught the canid, the cute little female coyote that wanted to be petted each morning greeting workers at the door, the chicken man who had no more chickens, goats cows and horses have all had my attention after the yotes went through.
Now please do not take the above that the actions of a few are the damnation of the whole, all of these events were perpetrated by individuals and it is individuals that I targeted. While I do carry a license to kill it is by no means a blanket warrant.
Also consider this, as stated so well by another, coyotes now fufill the role of an apex predator and as such there are above other than us. Had we not removed the wolf the wolf would do our killing for us or maybe a bear would tire of them and with one fell swoop of a size 15 paw could keep the yotes at bay. We now have more coyotes than the land can bear, literally. This unfortunately drives them to us since we seem to be so free with our food. Set a table and they will come. Please note my role as an educator, it is to that end I even post my ramblings. If I can strike a chord maybe it's a life I save, who knows one can always hope.
Even barring that even in the ideal world where no coyote ever encroaches upon others space the fate of wildlife in the ideal world is always unpleasant. Things die, that's the ideal world and each and every living creature has his or her number in this waiting room of life. Morbid humor would report that things always find odd ways to punch their number but for the most part it is quite predictable knowing the actuary tables as I do. For coyotes and other canines that prediction is sarcoptic mange, it is an always thing when mother nature says "to many of you, some have to go". That's the way of canines, of pyroconids (raccoon) it is amazingly the canine form of distemper though they as fall to the feline form plus parvo and the ever popular rabies. Among mephistis (skunk) the immunity to all but rabies leaves that scourge among us. And now for your morbid pleasure I shall show you sarcoptic mange. May I suggest you send the kids to bed.



Amazingly this youngster was still in somewhat decent shape considering his impending doom come winter. Admittedly he could not be comfortable but had yet to lose weight, I guess it was those cats that put on the pounds or maybe the cat food left by the cat lovers. Whatever the case this youngster could never survive such a chronic condition especially since he was as a true pariah dog as his sire and dam and littermates (probably afflicted themselves) had already made the cold hearted decision to cut their losses. Ain't mother nature a B.
The ideal world is never pretty and I am doing my part.

[Vance G]

A Gamo Whisper model pellet gun will shoot clear thru that coyote and makes little noise. You and your son could shoot it in the back yard a lot of times. Shoot coyote right behind the ear if you want him available to dispose of. Otherwise, he will run off and maybe die where some do gooder can squall and get people looking for animal cruelty. Something to consider with sub sonic .22 also. That is not much bigger than .177 But continue with some plan. That coyote not afraid of you is dangerous to have around. They don't get rabie shots.

[woodguyrob]

All for knocking em out with a rifle or bow for that matter.

Leg hold traps are purley barbaric. IMHO

[warrior]

All for knocking em out with a rifle or bow for that matter.

Leg hold traps are purley barbaric. IMHO

The proper term is FOOThold, please observe the photo. While doing so please show me specifically the damage that you claim to be barbaric. Been doing this for years and I know what I'm doing. If the tool was barbaric I would not own it. As a matter of fact the trap in the photo is a Minnesota Trapline Products model 650C aka MB650C. Please note the design features of this tool. A malleable cast iron jaw with a wide smooth jaw face. The jaws are offset, meaning that they do not fully close upon the foot, there is a 3/8" gap between the jaws. All of these features are purely for creature comfort as a narrow jawed trap that closes all the way will hold just as well. Of course these upgrades are more to manufacture and that particular model is known as "the cadillac of coyote traps" with a cadillac price as well. There are other features to observe as well. Note that the d ring at the base of the trap is position directly under the the center of the trap, this is to allow a straight line pull so that the foot does not slide side to side and possibly abrade. Directly under the D ring is the first of THREE swivels to prevent chain bind and allow free movement. The last two swivels (off picture) are flanking a shock spring to cushion the blow should the animal lunge. And of course the whole is anchored firmly to the ground to restrain the animal until I should arrive promptly at sunrise each and every day to remove my catches.
Please educate yourself prior to making statements based purley (sic) on emotion and kneejerk reaction.

Personally, I find it quite distasteful to poke something with a sharp stick and watch it stagger off to bleed to death but I would never deem that to be barbaric because as a cherokee I might resemble that remark.

[warrior]

Of course this barbarian is always open to suggestions. Tell me a better way to accomplish the capture and removal of individuals animals in places like down town atlanta or in that one's case in the middle of a gasoline/petroleum tank farm, they frown on things like guns there.
Please, don't even suggest cages. Been there done that and had to see for myself if the state of massachusetts was correct in it's finding that on only one night out of 1000 would you get lucky. They were right.

[Vance G]

YEAH what Warrior said! There are small children in town and do not try to tell me they won't hurt a small child because it happens! Cats and small dogs are on the menu too if that bothers anyone.

[bhfury]

YEAH, I you 'member... the dingo ate my baby (said with an Australian accent) story!!!! http://news.discovery.com/history/di...baby-case.html

[warrior]

More on these "barbaric" footholds.
-Every canadian wolf that the USFW "reintroduced" to yellowstone was first captured using a foothold.
-At least four midwestern states now have healthy and and expanding otter populations thanks to animals captured in other states with footholds.
-Sea turtle nests receive regular protection from marauding predators such as fox and raccoons using footholds.

[slickbrightspear]

marlin model 980s stainless with synthetic stock. IE childproof in that they can not mar the stock/barrell. bolt action 7 shot clip only down side is they only shoot long rifle.

[walking bird]

Additional options:

Claymore with a Shih Tzu leashed as bait.

Flamethrower--- mmm, barbecue.

Grenades--- help the youngster work on his fastball.

Pointed sticks--- a little Monty Python callback, for oldsters like me.

Acme Rocket Launchers (never worked on the Roadrunner, but always smoked Wile E.)

Let me know if further suggestions needed. You're welcome.

[woodguyrob]

Warrior- I read your reply to my post, researched modern traps, trapping and use by state wildlife officers using foot hold for relocation etc.

I'm glad things have changed with foot hold traps. Hopefully all trappers are with the times and using modern equipment, checking their lines each and every morning.



woodguyrob