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Truck Scales - under 26K GVWR

32K views 57 replies 27 participants last post by  mathesonequip 
#1 ·
Do you have to stop at the scales with an empty 24' flatbed rated under 26K (with air brakes)? What about a load that is obviously under 26K total weight?
 
#31 ·
HVH - crying with you, buddy! Seems they cloned Elmer Fudd, subtracted any good qualities he might have had, and the clones all have power trip issues and work for the government.

On the positive side - try to find and make friends with a trucker or even a bee transporter with a class A license and see if he can make it all seem easier for you. You're a few months ahead of me in the same steps, although I won't have the air brakes. I figured beekeeping would require a class A license sooner or later, so I'm studying for it. My police friends suggested going for a ride-along with the CHPs and get to know them. I've started applying and plan on springing for lunch, bringing cookies and doughnuts. Sounds like brown nosing, but these guys can help a lot and they don't get fussy with guys they know and like.
 
#32 ·
The thing is - I purchased an under 26K GVWR truck so I could drive with a Class-C for the time being. I may go commercial too, some day, but I had hoped that running with a non-commercial license would allow me to drive the truck like it was just a big pick-up. I guess it is still considered a commercial vehicle (over 10,001 lbs) even though I am driving it with a non-commercial license. The gal at the DMV told me I will need a medical card. I was told before hand that I wouldn't. I was also told I didn't need a DOT number until the same gal told me otherwise. It isn't that I can't do all this crap, but it just fries me to no end being regulated to the point where the real work doesn't get done. I think there is some truth to the argument that the roads are safer for it, but where do you draw the line in the sand. Is one accident too many. Is 10 too many? Is 100,000 too many? Do we get to the point where we realize that we are handing our futures over to China because we have gotten soft and over-regulated? Besides, I think it has more to do with revenue enhancement than safety.
Why no air brakes?
 
#33 ·
go to a truck stop and pick up a green federal safety regulations book. 5 dollars+ mine is on page 376 (apiarian industries) it says the rules of this part do not apply. no medical exam,etc. carry this book with you because most people do not know of special exemptions for beekeepers. you have to take care of yourself. they cannot argue when it shows the law in black and white. good luck
 
#35 ·
Did some research last night and the gal from the DMV was wrong about virtually everything. No medical card for farmers, no IRP/IFTA for under 26K, and I can get a movement permit in my home state.
I am going to another DMV today hoping I can find someone that is informed and get this truck home.
 
#37 ·
HVH, I know first hand that if you have any questions concerning a comm. truck and or regulations DO NOT ask DMV or a local law dog. Call your state motor carrier enforcment office or go to a weight station and ask them,they know the laws on comm. trucks/drivers and can show you in the book. most DMV and local police (and this includes highway patrol) know very little on motor carrier regs. Bsweet
 
#38 ·
Thanks for the advice. You are right - the commercial DMV office we have hear gave me wrong information on almost every imaginable question plus an attitude to go with it. As someone else posted, I will get the green book at a weigh station and dog ear 391.2. I will also collect all other rules and have them handy.
Thanks everyone for your help.
 
#39 ·
I've run in & out of the state of Florida for the past forty five years. I started out hauling live chickens in Florida when first got licensed then got into reefer trailers hauling produce. Most time anymore I'm steady pulling flatbed, dropdeck, or once in a while a lowboy trailer. I don't ever stop at the Florida scales when empty nor at the agri stations with a flatbed. Back in the sixties when I first started trucking I was told on several occasions to continue on after pulling across the scales a few times with empty trailers. Actually it just creates extra vehicular congestion with empty trucks jamming up the facilities but while trucking in other states I do stop because they will come after you with fines for running the scales. Never been stopped or had a problem with the enforcement in Florida other than a normal check when loaded sometimes crossing the scales. It's to bad other states don't use a little common sense and allow trucks to pass when they can clearly see there is no load on a trailer especially when an interruption in traffic due to vehicles entering or leaving the roadway can quickly cause another accident.
 
#40 ·
No special license required just because of air brakes. Everyone seems to think a class B is required but its not The NC DMV had to write a letter to the DoD and the gate guard contractor at SJAFB because the gate guards seemed to think we needed a CDL or some special endorsement but never could seem to find it in the book.
 
#41 ·
IF you are required to have a CDL, and IF your vehicle has air brakes... then you must have an air brake endorsement. BUT if you are not required to have a CDL to operate the vehicle... then it doesn't matter what kind of brakes you have... air or otherwise.
Beware also that the Federal requirements for CDL is minimum for all states.... BUT.. states CAN require more than the Federal requirements.... ie: The exemption for Apiaries... may not be exempted in certain states. UNLESS it is exempted in your state of registration. In my understanding is... if you are legally registered/ licensed in YOUR state, then you are legal in all states that have reciprocity with your state... and most states have signed this reciprocity. PHYSICAL regulations still apply in each individual state... speed limits/ load limits/ etc etc... but License and registration is only controlled by your home of registration.
I drive a Cabover tractor (registered as motorhome) pulling a 40' RV (42,000# gross) and I do NOT have a CDL... and is not required in any state that has reciprocity with Mississippi... RV's are exempted from all CDL requirements in MS
If you are hauling your OWN bees... have farm plates.... are we SURE we need a CDL, or DOT#? After reading all of this I still don't know. I am going to check what MY state requires... and that should be legal anywhere else. IMHO
 
#43 ·
Lake Thompson - Bsweet posted in #37 on page 2 of this thread, "...go to your state commercial vehicle enforcement office or local weigh station..." He is referring to the Federal commercial motor carrier regulation book. I am sorry that I don't yet have mine to quote from verbatim - I'm not using my class A yet. There are exceptions for beekeepers in it, 50-state federal regulation exceptions for us. It would be wise to have the book (with tabs on the significant pages), several copies of the beekeeper exceptions for passing out, and a laminated copy of laws pertaining to beekeepers. I'll get my act together and post it all soon.
 
#45 ·
As a baseball umpire, I used to try to keep personalities out of the discussions while welcoming discussion about the rules, even if a coach brought out his rule book. I imagine most DOT enforcement officials will similarly try to work with a guy who has his rules photocopied, highlighted, and laminated and shows a genuine effort toward compliance, especially one who is polite.

A "Thank you", a sample jar of honey, a smile, and a handshake make a great impression with a majority of them.
 
#47 · (Edited)
The trailer got you...had it been rated for 9990 lbs, (ie. less than 10,000 lbs) you would NOT need a Commercial DL, nor the plates, nor the medical card, unless of course, your truck was over 26,000 lbs gross in the first place.

The size of the trailer and/or being from out of state were probably the visual cues that they noticed first.

Some states will dismiss it if you go and get the Class A within one year, so ask a former judge in Iowa, and if the answer is yes, go get your Class A. Also ask him if a private Class A will get it dismissed, or if you need a CDL. You will probably be able to get it in your own state, but make sure you know the articulation requirements for Iowa with your state to get it dismissed ((what paperwork needs to be submitted to which address(es), do you need to return IA to appear?, etc.))

Definitely consider this, as it may work out cheaper than the fines.

Good Luck, but do your best to Make Your Luck!
 
#50 ·
No you don't need a CDL. According to Iowa CDL handbook the trailer would need to be over 10,000 gvw meaning it would need to be 10,001 or more. If you are right at 10k then your good.

You must have a CDL to operate:
• Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
• A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000
pounds if the gross combination weight rating
(GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more.
• A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more
passengers (including the driver).
• Any size vehicle that is used in the
transportation of any material that requires
hazardous materials placards or any quantity
of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in
42 CFR 73.
 
#52 ·
No, it's the Gross (total) weight.
Subtract the weight of your truck (or trailer, if that's what you're loading) from the gross, and add a generous cushion for dirt, fuel, crew, etc plus a buffer to get the weight of the load you can legally put on the truck.

When I was hauling wood chips for eastern Oregon to western Washington, I was once legal when I left the load yard but 500 lbs overweight when I got to the scale at Brightwood, OR on the other side of the mountains -- I had picked up that much water weight from rain, snow, and ice accumulation on a set of double trailers.

Even after i knocked enough ice off the undercarriage to be legal, the scale man didn't care, and got out his pen.

Load conservatively if you don't want tickets.

Dry wood can soak up a lot of water in a rainstorm, too.
 
#54 ·
The whole CDL thing has become a nightmare. 99 percent of the cops who will pull you are are clueless about the law. The DMV do not have a clue about what you need to drive your truck around, specialy if your in any way involved in comercial fraight hauling. Go to the DOT, the local scale, or simular, do not trust the cops, do not trust a judge, do not trust the DMV, thay do not know the law. A couple things, the anacranims can drive you nots, IFTA is International fuel tax agrement, something like that. DOT is Department of Transportation, errr can't remember all the rest of them, its been a while sense I drove a truck. Anyways, the best thing you can do is contact the DOT directly and find out the law. GET IT IN WRITING! Make copys, and carry thoes copys with you every time you move that truck. As for scales, pretty much so, if your running a comercial, of any sort, you have to cross the scales. Depending on state, some of them are much much worse than others. You can zip past the scales if your under a certian waight, or if you do not have a trailer, but, got a trailer, your going to want to pull in. YOu will want to get a copy of the DOT rules, and learn them, and mark the relivant pasages, as some cops will pull you over and ticket you for things that you are quite legal on. Some states are quite intent on raping people for any money thay can get.
 
#55 ·
I have been reading the MAP-21 Amendments as I write this & it is probably something that one would not end up on the good side of Johnnie Law when you get in to the facts with the officer as to him not knowing his job ( the law ).
Remember these laws are not taylored for just beeks.
They are exemptions for the agricultural industry.
I still do not see how this is any kind of excuse for not knowing the law.
Yet the MAP-21 Amendments state that 3 years are allowed for states to adopt these changes.
 
#56 ·
the old [5 years ago] rule of thumb was that if your pickup had single wheels on back when you came to a weigh station, just keep going .if you were pulling a trailer it did not matter. if they chased you down you might get chewed out but would only get a warning. if you pulled into a weigh station with the same vehicle you would get chewed out severely for wasteing their time anyway. if they deceide to give you a ticket they will, wether you deserve it or not makes no difference. if your driveing something larger, just be real polite and patient. if the truck is fairly clean and appears to have had some recent maintainence it helps alot. if you have bees on be sure they are tied down real well. if a few bees are loose you will not be at the scale house too long unless you are at the california border. if you have a cdl anyway when you do not really need it you are less likely to get a ticket....and so much for pigpen [scalehouse] etiquete....
 
#58 ·
the scalehouses and inspection stops often have a chainlink fence full of cruisers, hence the name pigpen.if it is open it is no secret that the pigpen is open on the CB radio .if you can not wait them out and do not dare go thru then find a country road. a freind with a load of hay once waited out a roadblock for 5 1/2 days on a labor day weekend down in conneticut, they are famous nasty down there. in canada there are no CB radios allowed but the weigh stations are in fixed places, go around if you must. if you get to a road block with a pickup with dual wheels stop.
 
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