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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sandpoint, ID, USA
    Posts
    37

    Default End bar router blowout

    Hey fellas. So I'm tackling the project of making my own frames. I just bought a brand new straight bit for the router. The router is an older craftsman. Using red fir wood for my frames. Upon routering the taper to the end bars, some pieces will router out good but most of the time I get blowout. What I mean by this is that it does not just shave the wood off, it will tear the wood from the grain and splinter like crazy.

    I for the life of me cannot figure out why. I suspect it is because of the wood, but not entirely sure. I don't know if its the bit style, or the router speed. It only has one speed. I would think its fast enough to do the job, but I'm trying to factor in the variables. The bit is a straight with 2 flutes. I really don't know much about routers so I'm not sure if they make bits with more than 2 flutes?

    Either way, what do you guys suspect is going on? I try and push fast and hard and try slow and easy. Either way, it produces mixed results... Let me know if you think pictures would help! I've got over 1000 end bars cut up and ready to be tapered! Heres to hoping I can solve this problem!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warrior, Alabama
    Posts
    1,067

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    I think it is the nature of the wood. It has a grain that separates easily.
    Try the same cut on several units of white or yellow pine.
    Old Guy in Alabama

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,644

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    Router bits are circular (obviously). But since they rotate in only one direction, you have a choice of whether to feed in the left or right direction. In one feed direction, the rotation of the bit will tend to push the cut wood away from the main piece. In the other feed direction, the effect will be to pull towards the main piece.

    So if you are having problems with splintering, try feeding the wood in the other direction to see if that helps.

    I don't use a router in making my frames - I add the taper to the end bars, (before they are sliced off the original block) with a jointer. But I do understand that not everyone has access to a jointer. You may also find that making shallower, multiple cuts with the router reduces blowout.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    3,888

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    When I have made frames I did this part on the table saw - before slicing the billets into individual parts of course. You aren't trying to shape individual end bars are you?
    since '09-25H-T-Z6b

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Chardon, Ohio
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    "some pieces will router out good but most of the time I get blowout. "

    Your problem is 100% in using the wrong router bit. It has nothing to do with router speed nor feed speed. And do NOT ever feed any piece so the bit is doing a climb cut. That is simply dangerous and asking for a trip to the emergency ward.

    What you want to do for this cut is go buy yourself a solid carbide up cut spiral bit and the tear out problem will be gone. Probably the best diameter for most overall usefulness is 1/2 inch. You buy that spiral bit and you may as well throw away your straight 1/2 inch bit as you will never use it again.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Plymouth County, MA, USA
    Posts
    123

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    I just made 50 boxes and I did them one by one on a table saw with a dado. I was using eastern pine, but I did the end bars one at a time, using a guide fence that came out partway over the blade.

    I don't know as I've never worked with fir, but is it possible you're coming at it from the wrong side? What I mean by that is that I had my pieces vertical as I ran them through, which might have some impact on splintering.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Bristol,RI
    Posts
    353

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    Quote Originally Posted by David LaFerney View Post
    When I have made frames I did this part on the table saw - before slicing the billets into individual parts of course. You aren't trying to shape individual end bars are you?
    this.. way easier to do everything on the table saw. make one big chunk then slice it in to side bars. you do have to do a bit of adjusting because once you slice one side you need to adjust for that wood loss to make the other side equal.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,292

    Default Re: End Bar router blowout

    Having End Bars with that taper has always been a bane to me. Now that I'm making my own End Bars, I make them with both sides straight and parallel. No more annoying taper. I find that to be a much better End Bar; less comb slapping during transport, fewer bees killed when reinserting frames, stronger frames, and the non-tapered End Bars are much easier to make.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 04-12-2014 at 09:16 AM.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,456

    Default Re: End Bar router blowout

    There are two possibilities here:

    First the wood is know to be brittle, so it may tear no matter what you do.

    The other is cutter sharpness and speed. Make sure your router is running full speed and not bogging down due to bad bearings. Slow cutter speed can cause splintering. However, if the cutter is not SHARP, you are pounding your way through, not cutting, and brittle wood will shatter.

    I recommend high quality carbide bits. They are far from the cheapest and can be a pain to sharpen later, but unless defective and very sharp and cut very well. C4 is much better than C2 carbide, and cheap cutters are junk no matter who makes them. I would not use HSS cutters for this job at all, it's very unlikely they will be high enough quality and certainly won't be sharp enough.

    Peter

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    longton, kansas USA
    Posts
    596

    Default Re: End Bar router blowout

    i make my own frames. nevr had a problem with tearout. what is ur set up like for making them ?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    longton, kansas USA
    Posts
    596

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sandpoint, ID, USA
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    Now that I think of it, yes, fir does have a grain that makes for easy splitting. Did some of it in firewood a few times! Although, someone tell me then, where would I find different wood species in a 2x?

    I have been doing the end bars individually. I did try and use the table saw to cut the taper, but did not have much luck. Maybe I will try the idea again. IIRC, I had a pretty warped piece I was trying it on. Pretty much had to throw it away.

    I returned my straight bit and managed to find an UP spiral bit. Although, it is in 1/4" diameter not 1/2. Its a small town I live in... I did try the bit out and it work OKAY. If I feed the piece in very slowly at the beginning and then slow the rest of the cut, it does not splinter or blowout. I do get a little burring at the end, but thats fine.

    I'm gonna give this bit a shot some more and see. Going to have to brainstorm some more. I saw an article last night on using the router to cut slot ends, etc. Got some experimenting to do, I suppose!

    I originally wanted to go without the tapers, but as I kept researching, it was an important thing to have. Maybe I will try a few frames without the taper and see how it fairs.

    The UP spiral I just got is DIABLO brand. $20 bit!

    Also, what do you mean exactly about what is my setup like? I've got a piece of wood clamped to the router fence as my stopper and a wood shim to support the taper so the cut does not deviate and stays straight.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,814

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    Quote Originally Posted by hex0rz View Post
    Hey fellas. So I'm tackling the project of making my own frames. I just bought a brand new straight bit for the router. The router is an older craftsman. Using red fir wood for my frames. Upon routering the taper to the end bars, some pieces will router out good but most of the time I get blowout. What I mean by this is that it does not just shave the wood off, it will tear the wood from the grain and splinter like crazy.

    I for the life of me cannot figure out why. I suspect it is because of the wood, but not entirely sure. I don't know if its the bit style, or the router speed. It only has one speed. I would think its fast enough to do the job, but I'm trying to factor in the variables. The bit is a straight with 2 flutes. I really don't know much about routers so I'm not sure if they make bits with more than 2 flutes?

    Either way, what do you guys suspect is going on? I try and push fast and hard and try slow and easy. Either way, it produces mixed results... Let me know if you think pictures would help! I've got over 1000 end bars cut up and ready to be tapered! Heres to hoping I can solve this problem!
    Quality of cut with a router is a factor of feed speed and depth of cut. This means speed of the cuter. the rate at which you feed the material and how much material you are attempting to remove. Note slower is not always better. correct is best. How to decide what is best is a subject far beyond what I will post here. Join a woodworking forum.

    Here is a hint though. I cut my tapers with a dado blade. I don't consider the router the correct tool for the job.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dos Palos, Ca. USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    HexOrz, I make my own frames and when it comes to end bars I first get my wood to the right thickness for me (1 3/8 inches) then I cut into blocks to lenght of frame i want then using a shaper I have cutters made to cut the slot for the top bar and next i cut the slot for the bottom bar my next step is to move to my jioner and have a tapered jig set up to cut across the block and give me a block with the taper cut away next set up my table saw with a thin blade and ripe out the end bars one at a time . Keeps your fingers away from trying to cut small pieces and run the chance of getting hurt. Tom Peavey

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,611

    Default Re: End bar router blowout

    It was previously stated:

    And do NOT ever feed any piece so the bit is doing a climb cut. That is simply dangerous and asking for a trip to the emergency ward.

    I disagree. For hand feeding, yes, but with a propped mechanical feed, a much better job can be done climb milling.

    Actually, if you inspect a commercially made end bar, you most likely will see that a large radiused tool was used in a facing operation, not a profiling operation, resulting in less chance for blow out.

    crazy Roland

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