trapping varroa

[drice]

Hello everyone. This is my first winter as a beekeeper. I have read extensively the posts here on bee source and have not come across anything about trapping varroa other than in drone brood.
What I envision is a tray/pan under the screen bottom board with the brood pheremone on it that signals the varroa to enter the cell. Any thoughts?

[Oldtimer]

Brood pheremones that attract varroa have been identified and used successfully in laboratory tests.

There was talk of commercial production of these chemicals, then nothing came of it.

[hipbee]

look at ross conrads book natural beekeeping, he came up with a varroa trap that replaces a frame.

[Michael Palmer]

A varroa trap that works?? Don't bet your bees on it.

[hipbee]

michael have you ever tryd one? if not please dont ney say. if you have then post your experiance, beesource drives me crazy because so many folks on here dont offer any insight from personal experiance they just tell everyone else that what there doing isnt going to work. I dont have any experiance with varroa traps and am also interested if anyone else have tryed it. so lets talk about what we have seen or tryed and stay away from "dont bet your bees on it" kind of snarky remarks.

[drice]

Yes, I know that people are trapping varroa in drone brood frames. Im new at this but I understand that varroa don't have eyes and knows when to enter the cell by the brood pheremone. Why can't we put that pheremone below a screen bottom board to get the varroa to willingly drop of the bees instead of just hoping they fall off and through the screen. This would also not use a whole frame of eggs and resources like drone foundation.

[drice]

This would not really be trapping it would be just supplying the varroa what they are naturally looking for.

[Jack Grimshaw]

re:" Don't bet your bees on it. "

I consider that to be valuable advice for a beginning beekeeper.
Too many beginers waste a lot of time and bees chasing rainbows,miracle cures and fads.
Experiment . Yes. But don't eat your seed corn.

"he came up with a varroa trap that replaces a frame. "
The chemical recommended was Methyl Palmitate.
Google that with varroa.
heres the first link that came up.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/g8078268v5287426/

[deknow]

as far as i know, there is only one person anywhere recommending a "varroa trap" with a straight face.

deknow

[deknow]

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ikw...page&q&f=false

...you can read the description (and see a picture) from his book here.

also, if you continue reading his description to page 119, you will read that his own account of using the trap also includes applying treatments in the fall.

deknow

[Oldtimer]

Too many beginers waste a lot of time and bees chasing rainbows,miracle cures and fads.
Experiment . Yes. But don't eat your seed corn.

Actually if there's one thing I've read on Beesource I'd agree with, it's that.

Since joining this forum it's been frustrating to see a constant stream of new beeks, or people who don't actually have a hive yet, coming out with all sorts of theories about how they are going to do it. Just reading these threads i KNOW it's going to end in tears, but they will defend their idea come what may.

Then when it does turn to custard they are dissillusioned and in some cases leave the hobby.

This way of thinking is also encouraged by the plethora of 'new agey, feel good" type beekeeping books and web sites, that say the mainstream methods are all wrong, or even evil. Reading these books it's sometimes pretty obvious that the author has a handful of hives and knows little about bees themselves, but is a persuasive writer.

My advise to newbies is go with the tried and true, conservative methods, for at least a couple of years till you get a better understanding of bees. THEN experiment. Cautiously.

[peacekeeperapiaries]

My advise to newbies is go with the tried and true, conservative methods, for at least a couple of years till you get a better understanding of bees. THEN experiment. Cautiously.

Thats my advice to new beekeepers also, you know what drives me crazy about beesource, all the new beekeepers who think they have it all figured out, yet they dont realize that the older beekeepers have tried everything and continue to dedicate much effort at reducing and solving problems. I provided this advice before and as such will provide it again....the older beekeepers on here have dedicated their lives to bees, it their living NOT their hobby, just because you may not agree with their methods, advice, or "snarky" remarks does not mean they are not as dedicated as those with less experience, in fact I submit that those who have weathered the storms of beekeeping and consider it their primary income have more incentive to resolve mite, disease, and beetle problems that the average everyday hobby beekeeper. Don't bite the hands that feed you new beeks, its the oldtimers and commercial guys who have been here for years answering your same old questions over and over and over again...pretty patiently I might add. Thanks for all the great advice you OLD GUYS...I continue to learn everyday both in my yards and on this forum.. PS....I like the "snarky" remarks sometimes they make me laugh.

[hipbee]

it seems to me that the tried and true conservative methods are more about chasing rainbows or magic bullets(chemical treatments) than the new agey feel good types that are trying to keep bees more in tune with nature. I cant speak for anyone else but me but it is downright frustrating trying to learn how to best care for these amazing little creatures when everyone tells you there is only one way. Ive been lucky enuff to spend some time with don the fat bee man and have learned alot, proffessors and scientist tell him all of the time that what he is doing wont work but thats all he does for a living and he dont look to skinny to me.

I have also been told I wouldent harvest a single tomato without using seven dust and chemical fertilizer, well thanks to good old compost and diatomatius earth I have enuf mason jars put up for two winters.

[Oldtimer]

it seems to me that the tried and true conservative methods are more about chasing rainbows or magic bullets.

There you go!

[drice]

Im not talking about trapping with drone foundation, nor am I recommending traping with a straight face at this time. This was only intended to be a hey has anyone thought of this, can you add some insight, any thoughts or concerns. If you say it can't work because your in the stone age don't reply unless you can back it up with valid reasons. Thanks

[hipbee]

welcome to beesource drice!

[deknow]

well, for one, i expect if you put enough brood pheremone behind a screen to attract mites, you will also have constant cluster of nurse bees, lured away from the open brood.

all of the feedback loops in the hive that involve the amount of open brood will be out of whack. the bees regulate brood rearing, task assignment, foraging behavior, etc through the smells in the hive....if it smells like a full super of open brood below the screen the bees will take them into account when allocating resources.

...but i did not see your original post as a "recommendation", it was a question, and a valid one.

the varroa trap that was discussed (and that i linked to) was written about in a fairly main stream book in 1997, and has never been mentioned, discussed, or recommended by anyone other than the author as far as i can tell.

deknow

[drice]

Thanks deknow, that is the kind of feedback im looking for. That was one of the things I had thought about, nurse bee congregating on the screen, but I think you would want that for this to be effective. As far as disrupting the natural flow of the hive, if this was only used for a short period of time would it be detrimworse,or any worse than the currently used techniques of mite control. How long would such a devise need to be in place to be effective. Would there be any more mites than a natural drop would give.
You know if you put a wire loop out in the middle of the woods at just the right place a coyote will come along and stick its head in it. Lol

[drice]

Before this thread gets to far off track with what ifs. Can anyone say with certanty that varroa would or would not be attracted to artifical brood pheremone.

[hipbee]

I think if it worked that well Ross Conrad would be alot richer and every supply company would carry them, im not saying because a bee supply company carries something it works! I am having alot of luck(making more hives than I lose every year) just using screened bottom boards and powdered sugar, and keeping small cell bees.