Africanized Honey bee northern range limit?

[mixofsam]

Hi Everyone,
I've believe I have read in the past (can't recall right now) that Africanized Honey bees will not be able to move much further north in regard to their range. I'm curious if this is true and if so, what prevents them from doing this. Obviously other races of honey bees (feral) can survive north of my area (Wisconsin).

Thanks,
Chris

[Buffalolick]

Where will they stop? That's the million dollar question. Someone has looked at where they are in the southern hemisphere and compared that to us, but I forget where that put them..seems like it was way far north of where there are now. It's my understanding that AHB do not overwinter well due to smaller colony size, perhaps due to the fact they swarm so often. Maybe due to the fact they make less stores. Those are behaviorial issues. I'm not sure if there are physiological issues with their overwintering as I believe they are very similar to other races. I could be way off base, maybe someone who knows more will post about it. Either way not happy about their steady move north...they made it to Georgia this year...although many beeks in AHB areas say its not that big a deal.

[D Coates]

My .02 cents (may be overvalued) is that AHB genetics are already clear up to Canada. Look at the southern breeders as well as the commercial beekeepers who overwinter in Southern states with AHB. When they ship north or bring hive north the genetics from supercedure or inadvertantly mating with AHB drones. A few invariably swarm at their spring destinations and are either captured by local beekeepers or set up shop and possibly swarm the next year. Meanwhile their drones mate with our queens and so on.

I'm not at all bashing commercial beekeepers or Southern Queen breeders. I buy some of those queens and I understand you can't garantee no AHB drone mixed it up with the queens I've bought. I've also captured swarms that were probably from commercial beekeepers. There's no way the proverbial horse was going to stay in the barn to effectively quarentine AHBs. I do pinch the queens from aggressive hives and breed from my hives that have trates I desire though.

Now "pure" AHBs? Last I knew they were holding as far north as mid Oklahoma. It appears their propensity to put their energy into swarming more instead of making higher population colonies and storing more honey makes them less winter hearty in northern climates.

[Scrapfe]

Where will they stop?... I could be way off base, maybe someone who knows more will post about it...

I DON'T KNOW & I SUSPECT THE USDA DOESN'T KNOW EITHER. As I've suggested before I think the USDA is laying low until they KNOW now far north AHB will move before USDA declares victory. That said, the amount of rain fall may be a bigger factor in limiting how far North, South, East or West AHB will go than temperature is.

Sixty years ago my Maw-Maw taught me the German black bee was a very defensive bee and there are reliable stories from 100 years or more ago of these bees killing horses, yet the Earth still revolves on its axis. It also seems there was an instance in Cullman or Morgan County Alabama about the late 1950s of a fatal or a near fatal attack likely involving German bees. Like they say in the flick Jurassic Park, "Life will find a way" to survive (or maybe not).

I believe all an individual county needs to be listed as infested with AHB is to have one colony found inside its border. That doesn't mean you can't smell the flowers there without being bee attacked anymore than one colony of Italians in Arizona means that state is AHB free.

"Dog bites man" is not a news worthy story anymore than "man swats bee" is, but turn the attacker and the attacked around and you have the makings of a real hummmmmm sting... uh dinger of a story.

[Roland]

The pattern seems to be that the really mean hives die shortly after the first frost. The problem in the hives that died seemed to be a fatal delay in clustering(if I remember correctly). I put the chances of pure AHB survival in Wiscosnsin at slim to none. The hives where the queen mated to a few AHB drones may have a much better chance, and our job as keepers of bees is to remove them from the gene pool.

What are your concerns?

Roland
Roland

[HVH]

The bees don't need to survive harsher climates - only their genes need to survive. They will likely breed their way northward with the question being how aggressive will the offspring become that survive in the north. It is likely that aggressive behavior will reside on multiple genes with some of them being dominant. If aggressive behavior and cold winter survivability are tightly linked then they may be restricted somewhat to warmer climates. Let's hope that aggression and swarming are tightly linked so expansion of africanized genetics is slow.

[bjoynes]

The reality right now to me is such that TN my own state might be able to support AHB on the grounds of similar climate to OK which already has AHB. Here are two links to the weather web site showing the average temps through the year for Tulsa, Ok, and Columbia, TN, 40 miles south of Nashville, and 35 miles north of the Al line on I65.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcli...graph/USOK0537

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcli...ly/graph/38401

I hope we are just to cold for them....

There my also be other reasons why we may not see AHB, but on the grounds of climate, it is interesting.

Bryn

[Daddy'sBees]

My 2 cents worth*
In Texas, AHB has deluted considerably. Perhaps due to many factors.

Perhaps... Tropical by nature, their natural tendency is to swarm many times a year to new areas of bloom. Not needing to build large reserves for any severe winter because there is plenty of blooming around, year around. I've, on occcasion, seen some dead hives in deer blinds, with MANY dead bees(heads in comb). Dry conditions anytime and HOT dry summers are VERY common, in Texas of all places, producing long periods of dearth. If they just swarmed, they are in peril. Swarms before winter, same thing. Swarms during any dearth is dangerous to their survival.

Perhaps... One wonders, how many generations can any gene remain a predominate percentage gene. I know there is some serious dilution going on. I find it hard for successive generations of queens to be reinforced by a pure AHB gene.

Perhaps... Other beeks have had some our our "good" bees swarm into the wild. Thus adding them to the dilution pool.

Perhaps... I'm all wrong when I feel as though the cut-out bees aren't so hot anymore.

Perhaps... I'm wrong about it all or part.

[AmericasBeekeeper]

You might wonder why bees have not spread farther in so many years. ARS entomologist José D. Villa at the ARS Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Research Unit in Baton Rouge, La., has found a correlation between rainfall of more than 55 inches, distributed evenly throughout the year, and an almost complete barrier to AHB spread. There is no idea why or how that works, but pray for rain and requeen regularly with marked EHB queens.

[bjoynes]

ABK,

That is interesting. When I was looking at the weather links I posted I noticed how we tend to have more of a steady average across the months, but OK has some peaks of rain fall.

Thanks

Bryn

[Bud Dingler]

they come north in spring and then the migratory beeks move them back south for winter.

and sometimes hybrids are purchased from queen producers in TX and other southern states unwittingly by beekeepers.

as another poster noted the genetics get transferred slowly all over the country.

no doubt the genetics are probably in almost every single state by now. but hey they are supposedly resistant to mites.

[Marc]

ARS entomologist José D. Villa at the ARS Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Research Unit in Baton Rouge, La., has found a correlation between rainfall of more than 55 inches, distributed evenly throughout the year, and an almost complete barrier to AHB spread.

I have heard similar statements, but I have a hard time believing that AHB would be deterred by evenly distributed rain throughout the year. They did manage without much trouble to penetrate the Amazon basin in a few decades, and that's as evenly rainy as you can get.

The other question I have been pondering is what influence, if any, did the last two relatively cold winters have on the AHB population in some of the southern states. Did the frost periods in 2009/2010 and the most recent cold spells last long enough to make a dent in their population and distribution? Did it potentially push back south the line of where they can survive and thrive year round? I realize it would be difficult to answer these questions, but I find them interesting nonetheless.

[Michael Bush]

The USDA was raising them and shipping them to Madison, WI and Larmamie, WY back in the 60's by the thousands and didn't report any problems with them surviving.

[Barry]

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...al-background/

"Stock of over 90% adonsonii is now available and with a little inbreeding this will be taken to over 95%."

Jan 1 - Mar 31, 1962

[George Heath]

Well im guessing between the AHB's breeding with feral & non-feral hives they should build up a resistance and adapt as they move north..
wether they retain their aggressive nature as this happens i dunno because the genes should be getting more & more diluted as they go.

I think the best thing to do is to flood AHB areas with normal hives to try and breed the agressive traits out of them.

kinda what their doing to us... sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire....

Now how that is going to happen I dunno..
Thats costs $ ... Hives, Bees ect...
Maybe the USDA or State Agriculture dept can put something together...
Maybe Supply local Beekeepers that volinteer with hives & bees and possably land to setup on like stratigic areas throughout the states known to have AHB populations.
if you end up with a hot hive re-queen...

Its the only way i know how to combat them...
And it should work ...

My $0.02

George

[AmericasBeekeeper]

AHB are not a “temperate” honey bee and as such are not genetically programmed to prepare for winter by storing lots of honey. As such they turn most all resources coming in into more bees thus more swarming. When things get tough they “abscond” meaning the whole colony gets up and leaves. This is a trait that allows them to survive pest, parasites and diseases. For instance when Varroa levels reach a negative tipping point the whole AHB colony leaves (absconds) leaving behind most of the Varroa.

Many people think this is resistance and it is a basic kind of survival resistance but beekeepers need honey bees to stay in the hive in order for them to be managed. No bees from constant swarming and no bees from absconding colonies added to defensive behavior and it takes some of the fun out of beekeeping and our historical reference point using manageable EHB as we know them. FDAS and IFAS want to protect you by the use of BMP’s. Being able to operate under the umbrella of the State against possible law suits for zoning or ordinance issues was why the Honey Bee Technical Council developed BMPs.

Africanized bees also usurp a weak or queenless hive. The mechanism or ability to quickly and accurately sense when a hive is ripe for taking is not clearly understood yet. The beekeeper can prevent or reduce the risk of usurpation by requeening with a marked EHB queen and maintaining healthy hives. Reduced entrances help the hive to defend itself too.

The most probable encounter with Africanized bees occurs when a virgin queen mates. Africanized bees produce more drones in the mating seasons. More importantly EHB queens use African semen 90% of the time in a study by DeGrandi-Hoffman. The queens were artificially inseminated with 50-50 EHB AHB semen. You might know the queen can elect to fertilize an egg or not, but now they select “the daddy.” ARS entomologists believe this is the strongest factor of AHB replacing EHB in a region. The solution is in the Florida BMP, use a mated marked EHB queen and replace her regularly.

If you know anything of queens you know the first one out of the cell kills all her rivals. The AHB queen emerges a day before the EHB so it is a short contest. AHB queens are also more successful fighters. Workers perform more bouts of vibration-generating body movements on African queens before they emerge and during fighting, which may give the queens some sort of survival advantage.

Some African traits are genetically dominant, such as queen behavior, defensiveness, and some aspects of foraging behavior. This means hybrid bees express more pure African traits. The only god trait apparently is resistance to Varroa mites. AHB swarm more, abscond more, do not produce as much honey, and are much harder to work by the beekeeper.

[beemandan]

When things get tough they “abscond” meaning the whole colony gets up and leaves.
Many people think this is resistance and it is a basic kind of survival resistance
One legitimate form of ‘resistance’ is the shorter development time for AHB reduces the varroa’s reproductive success. EHB worker 21 days…AHB worker 19 – 20 days.
http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/bees/ahb.htm
As I understood it, AHB's natural migration in S America corresponded to a line in N America that passed through Atlanta. Obviously migratory beekeepers surely transfer those genes beyond that line. The ability of those bees carrying the AHB propensity to abscond frequently will limit their long term survival in the colder parts of our country...in my opinion.

[brooksbeefarm]

AHB and EHB, brings to mind the story about the ant and the grasshopper that most of us know. The ant stores food for winter (like the bee) and the grasshopper doesn't, but as long as i can remember we've always had grasshoppers??? So they have found a way to survive Jack