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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wakefield, Yorkshire, England
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    19

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    I have had a go at making one of these and the cages. Not bad for a first try, wasnt to hard either, a few mistakes but not many.



    Link here to blog with lots more piccies

    BB

  2. #82
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    407

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Oldtimer,
    On your post of 1/17 you mention the grafting brush. I could see it in the picture. However...I am unfamiliar with a grafting "brush". I use a Chinese grafting tool or just a toothpick. Do you use an actual "brush"...or is that local terminology for something that, perhaps, goes by a different name here in the U.S.?
    If this is an actual "brush", I'd like to hear more about it.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Barry Tolson; 01-22-2011 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling error.
    Barry
    KC9TER

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,069

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    It's a 000 artists brush, and can be purchased at an art supply shop. The pic is of one with a darker bristle which is actually better. Just a caution when buying though there is quite a size discrepancy from one brand to another, you need the very fine ones.

    As to the Chinese grafting tools I've never used one but the ones I've seen are WAY too coarse for a very young larva I don't know how anybody uses them.
    Then there are stainless steel tools, not used in my country I've never seen one, but they are used by the likes of RRussell with good results so I presume they must be good. If I was still grafting I'd definately get one to try out.




    Blackbrood - Nice Work! Do let's know how this goes when you try it.

    My apologies about lack of measurements, I've not yet been back to where that stuff is kept but within the next few days I will & will post measurements.

    A comment on the use of ply, as ply is glued, there will be chemicals in the wood. This MIGHT harm the queen but I don't know. Personally I'd try to only use normal untreated timber. I do sympathise with you trying to nail that stuff!
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-22-2011 at 08:37 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,570

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    >As to the Chinese grafting tools I've never used one but the ones I've seen are WAY too coarse for a very young larva I don't know how anybody uses them.

    With the Chinese tools you never touch the larvae. It scoops up the royal jelly under the larvae and picks up that.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,069

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Yes I figured that but just emerging eggs sometimes don't yet have enough RJ for the size of them. Would probably work once the larvae are a few hours old but they look clunky and ponderous to me.

    Having said all that I haven't actually used one!

    But a brush can be REAL fast, no moving parts to add complexity to the operation, but I guess that's just what I'm used to.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wakefield, Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Blackbrood - Nice Work! Do let's know how this goes when you try it.

    My apologies about lack of measurements, I've not yet been back to where that stuff is kept but within the next few days I will & will post measurements.

    A comment on the use of ply, as ply is glued, there will be chemicals in the wood. This MIGHT harm the queen but I don't know. Personally I'd try to only use normal untreated timber. I do sympathise with you trying to nail that stuff!
    Cheers Oldtimer, the images and descriptions were just enough. fair point about the ply, I think untreated timber might be what I use next time.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SOMERSET, ENGLAND
    Posts
    349

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting


    But a brush can be REAL fast, no moving parts to add complexity to the operation, but I guess that's just what I'm used to.


    I have tried a few different grafting tools over the years,even a blade of grass or piece of shaped mig welding wire,but for me a small sable artist brush beats them all,fast, and efficient.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,570

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    I have several kinds of grafting tools. I haven't tried the brush. But the Chinese grafting tool is the easiest and delivers virtually all the royal jelly. I have the automatic metal one that you would THINK works like the Chinese one, but it does not pick up the royal jelly.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #89
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    407

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Thanks Oldtimer. I can see the merit in using a brush. The investment is small, so I'll plan on giving it a try this season.
    This is one of the things I like so much about this hobby...so many ways to accomplish various tasks....so many things we can try. What works for one may not work for another. And...we can never know it all!
    Barry
    KC9TER

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    So is the technique the same for using a brush? I would think that it's easier to flip the larva with the brush.

    Any tips?

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,069

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    So is the technique the same for using a brush? I would think that it's easier to flip the larva with the brush.

    Any tips?
    Yes have to be careful not to flip the larvae. I kinda used 2 techniques depending just which way the larva was lying. I'm right handed, so if the open end of the "C" was pointing away from me or to my left I would just slide the point of the brush straight under in a forwards direction and pick it up, the brush does not go under far. If the open end of the "C" was towards the brush can't do that so the brush got laid alongside the larve then rolled between the fingers to slide & roll the brush under the larva. If picking up the larva by rolling, the brush got put in the plastic cell and the brush was rolled and slid the opposite way to roll the larvae off.
    Just use the very tip of the brush the larva should be pretty much just hanging off the end of it to allow easy deposit into the queen cell.

    But for those starting don't get too hung up on technique, just grab a comb of some young larvae and start practising, you'll soon figure it out.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,140

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Is the larva marked 1 in this picture the correct size or is that even too big?

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Too big. Or at least bigger than we used to use.

    I'd try to capture an image of ones I use but I don't think my camera is up to it. Best way get a comb with a lot of eggs, and alongside there will be some just hatched larvae. They are tiny, they are the same size as an egg but they appear smaller.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,808

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Watch the Webanar that Brushy Mountain did with Dr. Connor about backyard queen rearing. He has very good pictures of the age of larvae that you need to use.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tipton, TN, USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    To find the video mentioned above...

    http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com...ces/Videos.asp

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    columbus,ohio,USA
    Posts
    518

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    when grafting...I like to think if I can see em without trying to hard, they're to big.
    Chris Cree
    Cree's Bees

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,140

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    More like this?

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,570

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Yes, that's better. The larvae should just be an imperfection in the surface of the royal jelly.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,069

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    Agreed.

    I've taken measurements from those queen banking cages, they are made from strips of timber 1 inch wide, 1/4 inch thick, and 1 7/8 inch long. Just cut timber to those lengths, assemble as per the pic and cut the door and the mesh to fit. Leave a little bit of wiggle room on the door but not too much.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Solano & San Bernardino Co., California
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

    I'm curious why it isnt the eggs that are grafted. No chance those are too old.

    Dave

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