Brushy Mountain Nuc Box Dimensions!

[JRH]

I recently received several Brushy Mountain 5-Frame Deep Nuc Boxes ... and I'm not happy about the dimensions.

The inside width is 7 3/4" - way too wide for 5 frames and almost wide enough for a sixth frame. This also means that the outside width is 9 1/4 instead of 9" - so my telescoping covers are either a very tight fit or else they don't fit.

The height is 9 3/8 - not the usual 9 5/8" deep height - so the standard wooden frame is within a sixteenth of the bottom of the box. No bee space at the bottom and barely an eight of an inch at the top.

No complaints about the quality of the wood or the box joints. If you want the standard height and width in wooden 5-frame nuc, I'd recommend the Rossman box.

[tommyt]

Must be the Year of New Designs


Happy New Year


Tommyt

[greengecko]

I have several Brushy Mountain deep and medium nucs. I like the dimensions.

[nabeehive]

We also make our nuc box 9 1/4" wide. Most of the discussions I have with beekeepers is that the 9" or 9 1/8" nuc box is too tight and might cause you to roll a queen while inspecting or transfering the bees. Expecially with full drawn comb or over wintered nucs that have lots of wax and propolis build up.

On larger orders we end up custom building whatever the beek wants.

[KQ6AR]

Thats funny because, I have some bm top feeders, & inner covers for nucs. On my man lake nuc boxes the bm components are a little to small. I use them anyway.
I always assumes there nuc boxes where smaller than the ML boxes.

[JRH]

We also make our nuc box 9 1/4" wide. Most of the discussions I have with beekeepers is that the 9" or 9 1/8" nuc box is too tight and might cause you to roll a queen while inspecting or transfering the bees.

Apparently you don't have the same concerns about rolling a queen in your full-sized boxes. At your web site, you say:

"We manufacture all of our boxes to match the Langstroth hive standards.

Dimensions:

10-Frame Hive Body: 19-7/8” x 16-1/4” x 9-5/8”
10-Frame Medium Super: 19-7/8” x 16-1/4” x 6-5/8”
10-Frame Shallow Super: 19-7/8” x 16-1/4” x 5-11/16”
8-Frame Boxes are 13-3/4” wide."

The standard 16-1/4" outside dimension yields an inside width of 14-3/4 - the Langstroth standard width for 10 frames. Dividing that by 2 for five frames, I come up with 7 3/8" inside width and 8 7/8" outside width - that's the Langstroth standard width for 5 frames. As opposed to your 9 1/4!

Why is there any more likelihood of "rolling a queen" in a 5 frame nuc of standard width than in a 10 frame box of standard width. If there is, why don't you make your 10 frame boxes 16 1/2" wide?

[greengecko]

Your math maybe correct but your practical application is flawed.

The standard frame width of Hoffman frames is 1 3/8".

Ten standard frames measure 13 3/4". In the standard 16 1/4" width box this arrangement allows 1" for frame manipulations.

Now apply the same to a 5 frame nuc.

Five standard frames measure 6 7/8". In a 9 1/4" width nuc this arrangement allows 7/8" for frame manipulations.

Given the lesser frame spread over time between 5 frames than between 10 frames one can reduce the 1" allowed for manipulations by 1/8" to 7/8" for 5 frame nucs. So you see the 9 1/4" exterior 5 frame nuc width fits the 16 1/4" exterior 10 frame Langstroth body logic quite nicely.

[fish_stix]

Good post Gecko! I make all my nucs 9 1/4 outside also. They work perfectly with 5 frames; plenty of room to remove one without rolling a queen, yet not too much space when the frames are centered. JRH; if you use those 9 3/8" deep boxes with a bottom board with 3/4" rim they 'll work OK as far as beespace goes.

[JRH]

You said:

Your math maybe correct but your practical application is flawed.

The standard frame width of Hoffman frames is 1 3/8".

Ten standard frames measure 13 3/4". In the standard 16 1/4" width box this arrangement allows 1" for frame manipulations.

Now apply the same to a 5 frame nuc.

Five standard frames measure 6 7/8". In a 9 1/4" width nuc this arrangement allows 7/8" for frame manipulations.

You are right about my math. Unfortunately, your logic is wrong. If 1" is the logical amount of room to leave for "frame manipulations" for 10 frames then 7/8" is TWICE as much as you need for "frame manipulations" for five frames.

As I said in my first post, there is nearly enough room in the Brushy Mountain box for 6 frames. Way too much for 5 frames. In the nuc environment where maintaining warmth is a major concern empty space is a bad idea - it's a waste of wood too.

Also, I remind you that the depth of the Brushy Mountain box is well short of the standard 9 5/8 - this in an environment where there is probably not going to be an inner cover to provide space above the top bars. As is, there is no bee space either above or below the frames. Another significant defect.

[BeeCurious]

Trim your frames to 1.25" and add a sixth frame...

[greengecko]

You are right about my math. Unfortunately, your logic is wrong. If 1" is the logical amount of room to leave for "frame manipulations" for 10 frames then 7/8" is TWICE as much as you need for "frame manipulations" for five frames.

So you just need 1/10" extra space per frame?!?

I give up. They're your hives so build 'em or buy 'em anyway you want 'em!

[greengecko]

Trim your frames to 1.25" and add a sixth frame...

That works for me with 9 in an 8 frame hive!

Bush Bees - Frame Width

[BeeCurious]

I'd recommend the Rossman box.

Rossman nucs are nice. I have two complete five frame hives.

I also have two or three complete 5-frame hives from Brushy Mt.

But most of my nuc boxes are homemade...

Rossmans nucs are nice, and it's true that there is less "excessive" space in them, but it's not handy when their covers don't fit on BM or Miller nuc boxes.

I believe my homebuilt nuc boxes are smaller than BM or Miller's and I'm certain that the outer covers I built are larger than Rossman's.

Owning equipment from a single supplier has its avantages.

[JRH]

So you just need 1/10" extra space per frame?!?

What I need is the same extra space PER FRAME for the five frames in a 5 frame nuc that I get for 10 frames in a standard ten frame box.

Here's the math for 10 frames:

Standard Lang inside dimension: 14.5"
Subtract 10 Frames X 1.375 = 13.75
Space left over for 10 Frames = 1.00 inches
Space per frame (there are 11 spaces) = .909

I'd like to have that same space for my 5 frames.

Now the math for 5 frames in a Brushy Mountain box:

Brushy Mountain inside dimension: 7.75"
Subtract 5 Frames X 1.375 = 6.875
Space left over for 5 Frames = .875
Space per frame (there are 6 spaces) = .1458

This is more than 60% more space PER FRAME than provided by the standard Lang width. So when you say "so you just need 1/10" per frame?!?" - I'd say .909 is what I want but 1/10" is OK - not .1458.

[Michael Bush]

You can always make follower boards. They are very handy to have to fill odd spaces and those occur no matter what the design as there are fat and skinny combs that get moved around by the beekeeper...

[BeeCurious]

Space per frame (there are 6 spaces) = .1458

There are six spaces?

From my way of seeing things you will have two spaces of about 7/16" on each side.

A little propolis will easily gum up the math...

[Roland]

I am confused. You push the combs to one side, then remove one frame. The number of combs does NOT effect the space you need to remove ONE frame. Why are we dividing by the number of frames? You could have a horizontal hive with 50 frames, and still need the same space to remove ONE frame.

Confused Roland

[JRH]

I am confused. You push the combs to one side, then remove one frame.

Exactly. The additional space you need to remove one frame is the same in a five frame hive as it is in a ten frame hive. There is no need for more in a five frame hive.

[Broke-T]

I like a little extra room in nucs since I am making up splits. You pull frames from different hives and they never go together as close as you want. Wide honey at top or bowed frames and such. So a little extra wiggle room makes it easier to get frames in and out without damage. They are not there long term so the extra space is not a problem.

Although tops not fitting anywhere is agravating.

Johnny

[greengecko]

If 1" is the logical amount of room to leave for "frame manipulations" for 10 frames then 7/8" is TWICE as much as you need for "frame manipulations" for five frames.

The additional space you need to remove one frame is the same in a five frame hive as it is in a ten frame hive.

Get back with us when you come to an agreement with yourself.