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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stonewall, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    66

    Default Perm E8 treatment

    I'm assembling new boxes and had bought Perm E8 from Dadants and wanted some advise on its application from you guys who have used the product.

    How do you dilute it and how do you apply it. Brush, dip (if so, how long to soak), etc...

    Thanks

    Brent
    Sucking the marrow of life doesnt mean choking on the bone...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,150

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    I dilute 5 to 1 with kerosene and dip for 4 days to a week. Then I let it air dry in my storage shead. When the weather warms and we have some sun I put them outside in the sun for a week or two before using them.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warrior, Alabama
    Posts
    1,057

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    Think very long and hard before you put it on any inside surface where the bees will live. It will get in to the honey. Who do you want to eat it?
    Old Guy in Alabama

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Shoshone County, Idaho
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    John from Georgia Bees has a youtube video showing how to soak your entire unassembled hive/honey supers in a bucket of Perm E8 prior to assembling.
    Sounds like the area he is in wooden ware rots fast and also has problems with termites!?
    I guess I don't blame someone for trying to make there wooden ware last as long as possible, but I don't know if I could do that to my bees and also take the chance with the honey that I sell to my customers???

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,150

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    Study done in 1980 showed that honey from colonies that were treated with copper napthanate contained less than 1 part per million more copper than the control colonies that were not treated.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Shoshone County, Idaho
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    Thanks AR Beekeeper! I was not aware of that, sure makes me feel better.
    I really thought it was hard to believe that Beeks would intentionally put toxic crap in there hive boxes!
    Mtn. Bee

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    We use a water soluable form of copper napthenate called Cunapsol-5.
    It is way cheaper than the permeate and drys a lot faster. Check the label on the Perm E8 and see if you are able to use latex paint over it. Most of the oil formulas require oil based paint over them which is costly.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,083

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    The first thing you need to know about copper napthenate is that working with it will make you smell bad. Like bee-go spilling in the back of the pickup. It takes a while to disipate once you've worked with it. Wife and daughter don't like me in the house after we work with it. The help gives me the look like" oh no--- not that stuff" when its time to work with it.

    Use gloves and masks as neccessary.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the Egyptians didn't use the stuff to "cure" king Tut.

    We have a big stainless steel tank. It will hold about 400 deeps unassembled. We stack them in the tank in order to minimize wiping when we pull them out. (saves many man hours of time)

    I buy 8 % copper napthenate and dilute it to 2%. Not sure about now but doing so used to cut the price of using it by 50% as opposed to premixed prices.

    As all the wood will float in the tank we have developed a system to hold it down. I let it soak 2-3 days so we get good penetration ( this is not under pressure, wish it was though) The paint thinner we use to dilute the copper also likes to eat the pitch out of the wood which can vary by lot. After the boards are removed we lay them on end ( cut ends up and down with sides exposed) in long rows of about 60 feet long and let the sun bake the thinner out of the wood. This is not a winter time job obviously. Once the wood is dry I paint both the insides and outsides of the boxes. Painting the insides of the boxes, if you are going to slam bees in them right away, is not a good idea. I try to let them dry at least a month in the summer. Longer when its cooler. Two months to put a box together is a long time.

    Most people don't paint the insides of the boxes I realize. It adds a lot to the cost of boxes. Some people just buy junk boxes and throw them away. Most of my stuff built this way should last till we run over it with the forklift or drop them off the truck. I use the top of the line Sherwin Williams oil based primer for the first coat and a their top off the line exterior for the finish. With the copper "soak" the primer sticks like a rock. Better adherence than on straight wood if you let it dry out correctly. Letting the primer dry a day or two in 80 degree weather will "bake" it on good before thee final coat gets applied. Boxes I make with this fashon back in 89 still are brand new both inside and out weather tight wise. Finish coat is a little faded not suprisingly.

    If you plan on passing your equipment to the grandkids the copper will help. Its costly to do it but will likely triple the life of a box. The first 100 deeps I bought from Glory bee back in early 80's are starting to rot now. Ever since then all new boxes get the "treatment." An added benefit is the boxes seem to twist and warp less when treated. Dealing with junk boxes with falling frames etc.. wastes a lot of time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stonewall, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: Perm E8 treatment

    Thanks guys. I appreciate the help.

    Brent
    Sucking the marrow of life doesnt mean choking on the bone...

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