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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,936

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    http://s841.photobucket.com/albums/z...rrent=Nuc2.jpg

    See if this comes through.

    cchoganjr

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Hi Cleo
    what did you nail the nails from the side into on top?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,936

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I pre drilled and used a #4D nail. My thinking is it would give that thin part of the rabbit cut a little stability, and hold it firmly in place until the glue dried.

    cchoganjr

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,113

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Ok I tried to put all I could in the Picture
    Please tell me which one is the weak Link
    hope this helps all
    Tommyt

    Picture removed to help clear confusion
    Last edited by tommyt; 12-31-2010 at 08:42 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,936

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Reference the photo submitted by Tommy T, I am not a cabinet maker, (so keep that in mind), but I have built several hundred bee boxes the past few years. To me the weak link in either of the designs, is the thin rail of the rabbit cut, (that portion that goes across the front and rear), which, in the new design, is unsupported except for the butt joint (and glue) on the inside of the the long side of the the bee box. I put a #4D nail in this thin piece, ( in my test box) but you will have to be careful in order to hit that small rail with the nail. Convential boxes over lap this long side with the thin cut of the rabbit joint. To me the greatest advantage of this new joint would be for those bee keepers who tend to break off that thin part of the rabbit, either in asembly or in those cases where they slide the hive tool in from the rear, as opposed to going a couple inches up the side (as you really should), and inserting the hive tool, and prying there to break the boxes apart. If you open from the rear, it is real easy to break (or compress, the top of that thin cut) as you pry down on that thin piece of the rabbit to break the boxes apart..

    Here I think it would be a good idea for older bee keepers to help new bee keepers by advising them not to pry on that thin board. Go up the side a couple of inches, insert the hive tool and pry there. The design has been around for 150 years, and even without experience, bee keepers have survived, so we will just have to see how this new joint works out. As I said, I am going to make a few deeps, and shallows, and try them for a couple of years and see how they perform in relation to the older design.

    I do agree with Kelly, with the number of nails, staples, and glue, strenth should not be a major issue. I have not talked to Kelly, but keep in mind that for every one commercial bee keeper, who knows the ends and outs of equipment and supplies, Kelly probably sells supplies to a 100 bee keepers who are less experienced. They are always looking for a way to help the average or less than average bee keeper (who make up the largest population of bee keepers), as well as those more experienced. They are good people, and if anyone has a problem, I believe they will work with them to make it right.

    If I can ever help you or anyone else, feel free to contact me at cchoganjr@scrtc.com and I will do my best to help.

    cchoganjr

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,785

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    We pry on the 3/8 thick section because that is where your hand is when you walk up to the side of the hive. We see more damage from other causes, such as droppping on that edge, and bees chewing on it, when the upper set back is less than a bee space.

    We scrape our supers before they are put away for the year, and the damaged ones are culled. We have pre-made strips, 3/8 x 3/4 x 16 1/4, and set the saw to remove the frame rest. I can see that this design would require 2 passes to remove the material, or one pass and a shorter repair piece.

    We use 5 penny Maze naills going into the 3/4 end grain, and have had few problems.

    But like someone said, we may just have to let them see the test of time.


    Roland

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    French Lick, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I haven't had a chance to see the new Kelley box joint but it sounds like an improvement to me.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,113

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    cchoganjr
    I am sorry I now realize this is not your Post but in fact a Box you made for us to Look at Please excuse my, absent mindedness
    I put that up thinking it was the WTK BOX and folks could use the colors to say what and where the WTK box is no longer as strong as it once was
    I have to say I like the top Box cut being twice the size as the rest in your picture

    Tommyt
    Last edited by tommyt; 01-01-2011 at 09:01 AM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,936

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Everyone....... Let me make sure everyone knows the posts of the 9 photos I posted, are not of Kelly Boxes. They are of boxes I made. I have not seen a box made by Kelly using the new design. I just took the discussion in the posts on page one and two and made a Nuc, just to see how the design would look, and to share it with all of you.

    Kelly will make more boxes in one day than I will all year. I am not in their league with either equipment or experience in making boxes.

    cchoganjr

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,785

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    For clarity, my coments where directed to Cleo's image he posted. Not Kelly's. Can anyone post a picture of the Kelley box?


    Roland

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    [QUOTE=Roland;605132]. Can anyone post a picture of the Kelley box?


    I can't but maybe kelley could

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    839

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I have also ordered recently from Kelly bees and have been very satisfied so far. I ordered some deeps back the week of Thanksgiving and I believe I have the new box design. I don't have one assembled yet, but from these 2 pictures you ought to be able to see the new joint very easily. Please let me know if you're able to see them from one of the two addys. . .

    http://s1176.photobucket.com/albums/x323/delber2/

    http://s1176.photobucket.com/albums/...bum_view_click

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo,MI
    Posts
    331

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Yes, the new design shows in the pictures. Only time will tell how they hold up.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Dorset, Vermont
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    To Cleo Hogan - Saw your woodwork at Photobucket and was very impressed with the designs and quality. Would you please elaborate on how you make the handholds with a Skil saw and the Hogan Jig?

    Many thanks.
    Jeff Hills

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,785

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Thank you Delber, you have parted the haze.

    Roland

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,936

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I can see by looking at the photos posted by delber, that the new Kelly Box has a single width finger at the top, on the long side. I thought it was going to have the width of two fingers, as in the one I built. This new design by Kelly will be easier to make, all you do is reverse the starting point of the box joints on your jig. Current models, front and back, start with a finger, and sides start with a valley. To make this new model all you do is reverse the operation.... start the front and back with a valley and the sides with a finger. You eliminate the 3/8 cut in the top finger on the sides.

    I honestlly don't think it will make a lot of difference which way they are made. The important thing is how you handle them,(carrying, storing, dropping, etc.) and how you use the hive tool to seperate your boxes.

    cchoganjr

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo,MI
    Posts
    331

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Well, after building twenty of Kellys new improved supers I have an opinion. They are not the same. Having the frame rabbit end short of the sides gives no place to nail together.
    I feel that this is a cheap way to make a box and there is no way to draw up the top joint. You have to use two bar clamps to hold it in place while glue sets. The old style you just used the small nail at the top to hold in place. Having that little 3/8 rail without a nail or some stronger wood will make it snap off first time any pressure is applied to it. I found two broke off in the carton before assembly. I hope they offer the old style soon cause I'm not buying these again.
    Last edited by tefer2; 01-24-2011 at 09:10 AM.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Well, after six months is there any more feedback on Kelly's new design?

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