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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default kelley woodenware

    Has anyone seen the new improved???? boxes from kelley? not good. They ended the rabbit for the frame rests at the side board. I tried this before and they break off when pried on. Very disappointing. They told me it was stronger, not so. If it's not broken don't fix it. i bought my last super and hive body from them.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pell City,Alabama,USA
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I'm guessing they intend for you to do your prying on the solid side board that they evidently, according to your description, now have running the entire length of the box. I would have to say if this is the case I agree with you. I would also say that I have never known the WTK Co. not do anything possible to correct a customer complaint, and I'm betting they will yours also.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,105

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I just went looking at their sight. I don't see the change mentioned,Is it not and they send you the new style you speak of? I am new to keeping and just curious of this change,I can't figure what you mean ended at the side board,I thought all hive box's are only rabbit cut on either end to support the frame.sorry about the Dumb thought?

    Tommyt

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I would agree with you that Kelley will do anything to satisfy a customer. I've been doing business with them for awhile . There boxes were EXCELLENT. This however involves changing the whole set-up and I don't see that happening. i was told that this is the new style.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    French Lick, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Quote Originally Posted by bennybee View Post
    Has anyone seen the new improved???? boxes from kelley? not good. They ended the rabbit for the frame rests at the side board.
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
    I just went looking at their sight. I don't see the change mentioned,Is it not and they send you the new style you speak of? I am new to keeping and just curious of this change,I can't figure what you mean ended at the side board,I thought all hive box's are only rabbit cut on either end to support the frame.sorry about the Dumb thought?
    Any chance you could post a photo or drawing of the "new improved" boxes?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pell City,Alabama,USA
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Benny, if I understand you correctly this means the rabbitt is not nailed off at each end to the side panels, it is self supporting. Right?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Quapaw OK USA
    Posts
    262

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I have had very little experience with Kelly but what I have had they would bend over backwards to correct it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,105

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Trithemius Any chance you could post a photo or drawing of the "new improved" boxes?

    I did try to post a picture from their page and it was HUGE. I will edit this post soon ,with a small cut out picture of the Rabbit hopefully then someone can use it too explain to us, what it is
    Be back shortly

    Tommyt
    Now I tried the picture same as before and this time its small, I did no Picture editing?? Hope this helps
    It is really confusing me because when I posted earlier and looked at the Preview the box was so Big it
    consumed my entire screen and was only a Portion of it
    Hope it works


    This is the page I got it off of
    http://www.kelleybees.com/CMS/CMSPag...2-7b94c09d6c87
    Last edited by tommyt; 12-26-2010 at 07:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Clarkson, KY. USA
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Hey Guys,
    Yes we changed the box joint slightly. We feel that this change is going to strengthen the boxes. When I seperate my boxes I approach the back of the hive and all my prying is done on the long side of the box. With this new design you are prying on a full 3/4" thick board and not a smaller piece. I also dont think I have ever tried to seperate my boxes starting at a corner. My habit is to slip my hive tool in between the boxes about 1/3 of the way in from the back. They always seem to seperate fine. Now on the long side of the new design we dont predrill the very top because if you were to nail through this you will be trying to hit a 3/8" thin piece of wood. The 7 D nails we provide would probably split the wood. If you glue and staple/nail we feel this joint is better than the old one. This is not a cost cutting issue as it takes at least as long to make this as the old joint. As always, we do welcome your feedback and comments. I feel some people are just speculating that this is a weaker joint with out knowing for sure. You still have seven nails/ staples in each corner and with good glue it's not coming apart. Let me see if I can post a close up picture of the new design.
    Thanks- W.T. Kelley

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Rice County, MN, USA
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I purchased woodenware from Kelley in November and was very pleased with what I received. The order was packed well and shipped promptly and nothing was left out.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,105

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    W.T. Kelley
    I am fairly new to keeping I applaud you for that post and you will get orders from me

    Happy New Year

    Tommyt

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Hardin County, IL USA
    Posts
    23

    Wink Re: kelley woodenware

    I have to agree that the folks at Kelley are very accomodating. I have been satisfied with their boxes and woodware

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    I'm not saying WTK is not a good supplier. Everything I've bought has been top shelf compares to other suppliers. With this I guess we have to agree to disagree.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    .
    I feel some people are just speculating that this is a weaker joint with out knowing for sure.
    I assume I'm " some people". I'm a cabinet maker and a woodworker and I DO know my joints. And I do know for sure.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,589

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Quote Originally Posted by bennybee View Post
    .
    I assume I'm " some people". I'm a cabinet maker and a woodworker and I DO know my joints. And I do know for sure.
    bennybee,

    If you could post some closeup photos it would be nice...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    The reply from Kelly did not mention the one problem that some people have had over the years with assembly of the normal rabbit cut going the entire length of the front and back of a bee box. You do need to be careful when nailing the first nail. The top joint is only about 1/3 as thick as the other box joints, and if you use too large a nail, or you pound too hard on that thin wood, you can split the wood at the bottom of the first joint or you can break off the end of the wood where the rabbit meets the first joint.

    I haven't tried the new box, but I know Kelly put some thought into it before they marketed it. Their advice about where to pry, to open boxes, is good advice.

    cchoganjr

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Clarkson, KY. USA
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    That was exactly our thought. You have a piece of wood that is 3/8 in the corner with the old design. Too large a nail splits it and any prying can break it if your'e not careful. Even a smaller nail stresses it. On the new design using deeps, you are putting 11 nails/staples in each corner and glue. They arent coming apart. Benny, I did not intend to disrespect you or your abilities, but you have not field tested this design and I think you are worrying about something that has not occured. Why pry on the corners anyway? With 7-10 day inspections the boxes can be seperated easily by prying 1/3 of the way in on the long sides.
    Change for us is not easy either. There is a lot more than meets the eye as far as tooling, set ups and the like. When we cut lumber we are talking about semi loads monthly. We would only do something that we feel improves our products, otherwise why change?
    Thanks,
    WT Kelley Co.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Stillman Valley,IL,USA
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    you win WTK. I give up. I guess time will tell. You are a great company and sell quality equipment. I hope this works for you. I have never had a complaint about anything I've purchased from you. I wish you the best with this new design.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    bennybee.....I haven't seen the Walter Kelly box, and from the photo I can't tell exactly how it is built,... but after the discussion yesterday, I went out into the shop and built a five frame Nuc from the discussions posted yesterday.

    First thing I found is that there are two ways to build the box joints without a lap on the top joint as current commercial boxes have.. If the first box cut on the bottom on the long side of a deep super is a valley, (then of course the bottom cut on front and rear will be a finger), this setup will leave a top finger (the one against the rabbit) of 1 5/8 inch. I think I might like that thicker finger on the front and rear of the long side, since this is where you pry deep supers open. But I don't know for sure. I had never thought about building the box joints this way.

    However if the first box cut on the bottom, on the long side, of a deep super is a finger, (then of course the first cut at bottom of front and rear will be a valley) the top finger against the rabbit will be 11/16 inch. This top finger would be weaker than the 1 5/8 above, or the current 11/16 lap..

    I guess they need to be field tested for a couple of years to see which one will last longer. With glue and nails, I really don't believe there will be a great difference in the way the top finger/valley/rabbit is constructed. In current models, the thin top above the rabbit can split if you use too large a nail, don't drill a pilot hole, or pound too hard on that thin end piece of wood. On the new model, the end of the rabbit cut is not supported against a finger, it is simply butted up against a finger. The end is so thin (roughly 5/16 inch) it is probably too thin to use a nail or screw, so will only be supported by glue..

    Hope to have photos I can post tomorrow to show what I mean. I am going to make a few and put them to a test this next year. I guess time will tell. I am always open to something new and better, and I am sure Kelly is too.

    cchoganjr

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,744

    Default Re: kelley woodenware

    Here is a photo of a Nuc I built with a 1 11/16 top finger box joint. The top of the rabbit butts against the side wall and does not overlap the top finger. For those who like to open their boxes from the rear (which is not a good practice, because you are prying on top of the thin part of the rabbit) this joint will allow your hive tool to pry along the top of the side without touching the thin part of the rabbit. You eliminate the danger of breaking the top of the rabbit cut off.

    I honestly don't know if this is better or worse. I guess the best thing to do is to try it for a few years and see how it works out. I plan to make a few and try them this year.
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 12-30-2010 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Photo did not get attached

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