Does Warre Culture ever actually work?

[David LaFerney]

First of all I'm not saying that it doesn't - I'm seriously asking.

I've looked a good bit on the Internet and I see lots of shiny new hives, and lots of first year attempts, and a few reporting heavy losses. But I have yet to see proof of concept for the system - a Warre yard managed in the Warre way that has continued to be sustainable for at least 3 years.

I'd really like to see and hear about it, because I think the concept is intriguing.

[Oldtimer]

I think part of the problem is the Warré purists believe you can tell everything you need to know by looking at the bees from outside the hive.

For example I've seen it stated on this forum by a Warré "expert" that you can tell if there is a brood in the hive, because if the bees are bringing in pollen on their legs, there must be brood. This is false, broodless hives will still collect pollen, but this type of simplistic thinking leads to hive die outs due to untreated ailments/problems of various types.

I don't think this bothers some of the Warré keepers too much though, they just re-stock the hive with a new swarm or package.

Not to say exactly the same thing doesn't happen with Langstroths though! It depends on the beekeeper.

I don't think the leave it alone approach is so viable now a days, now that there are so many pests and diseases the bees have to contend with that the keeper should be monitoring and dealing with.

Oh, and please nobody say that the cause of all the diseases we now have is the design of the Langstroth hive!

Also a disclaimer, I'm not saying Warré keepers are all leave it alone people, I have a friend who is a very skilled beekeeper who has a Warré. However i think he may "manage" it a little more than Ēmile would have recommended.

[David LaFerney]

A few die outs wouldn't really be all that bad if the yard had enough healthy hives issuing swarms to make up for it. That would still be sustainable. I'd like to hear about it - and see pictures if possible - if anyone is doing it.

[waynesgarden]

Wouldn't a yard full of Warré hives either need to be flying off the radar as far as state bee inspectors go or else use removable frames, which makes the hive a sort of hybrid?

If one uses removable frames, is one getting away from the Warré concepts?

Just wondering. The concept looks interesting to me also, though I'm not sure how very practical it is.

Wayne

[David LaFerney]

Maybe, but I was recently in touch with our state apiarist about this exact thing - are top bar hives legal in TN? He says that the intent of the law is that all hives must be able to be inspected, so yes top bar hives are legal - in TN.

However, in pictures I've seen of the innards of Warre hives the combs usually do not run straight enough to be removed for inspection. Usually those pictures are from the bottom of a super that has been removed and they look very organic and free form. Pretty, but not inspectable. So, to be legal there would probably need to be enough intervention to get straight comb built at least.

[Cacklewack]

I run around 12 Warre hives and have been doing so for a couple years now and I've had good success. I populated them all with either Minnesota Hygienics or Buckfasts and so far I believe I've lost 4-5 colonies. 1 absconded and the others I lost over the winters with all signs pointing to Varroa. I've done zero treatments, and use standard Warre hives (no frames, no screened bottom, etc.).

Also, using a "Bill Wood" hive tool (http://warre.biobees.com/cutter.htm) it's not terribly difficult to remove a Warre comb for inspection. I do from time to time if I notice issues and need to inspect further.

Having read his book numerous times, I think the conception that Warre never opened his hives other than to add boxes/remove boxes is unfounded.

I'll let you know how things go over this winter. So far all hives seem to be alive.

Best,
Matt

[David LaFerney]

Is this your second, or third winter?

[Oldtimer]

Gonna say here that Cacklewack is a Warré keeper that I DO have respect for, I've read a lot of his posts he is honest and knowledgeable.

If anyone could make a Warré work it will be him.

[Cacklewack]

David,

This is winter number 2 for these 12 Warres.

Best,
Matt

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

Well, all my surviving bees are in the care of another beekeeper, but I will say this: For the two seasons I kept Warre hives in Seward, AK the Warre hives consistently outperformed the Lang hives in all aspects from comb construction to survival. All hives were treated identically with regard to opening for feeding or inspection and adding boxes. In fact, the only hives which survived the first summer and entered winter were Warre type hives.

YMMV, of course.

[David LaFerney]

David,

This is winter number 2 for these 12 Warres.

Best,
Matt

Got my fingers crossed for you.

[Cacklewack]

Thanks, David! I've got them lined up with a bunch of horizontal top bar hives, top bar nucleus colonies and a Langstroth hive. So far they are unhappy about the incessant rain, but all seem to be alive and kicking.

Best,
Matt

[Simply Peter]

I'm just starting out and am in the process of putting together two Langs and two Warre hives. I have two packages and two nucs ordered, the plan is to put the nucs in the Langs and the packages in the Warre's. Any suggestions for how to feed each in the spring?

[David LaFerney]

It's been over a year now, and I'm just wondering how those Warre hives are doing now? I hope they made it through last year and are looking promising for the next...

[odfrank]

In my opinion the type of box bees are in has little to do with their sustainability. I have kept bees for 42 years and the hive killer that has killed my hives the last five years is an equal opportunity killer. If it kills bees in Langstroths, tree cavities and topbars, it will kill bees in a Warre.

[DC Bees]

I have a Warre hive and this is the second winter for them.I made my own frames so they could be removed and inspected.If i don't move frames up they end up like this!
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSC01840.jpg

[Zonker]

Those bees ... they a mean sense of humor. I have fixed bars and my bees built this.

Warre Hive (1).jpgWarre Hive (2).jpg

[Bush_84]

FYI I have a Warre that is surviving its first year. To me I think people aren't open to other ideas/strategies. I like the thought of being open to all philosophies and picking and choosing the ones I believe to be right. For example, there are people in the Warre world that super a box during the main flow. I intend on trying that this summer.

[sqkcrk]

A few die outs wouldn't really be all that bad if the yard had enough healthy hives issuing swarms to make up for it. That would still be sustainable. I'd like to hear about it - and see pictures if possible - if anyone is doing it.

What? Let them die because others will swarm? Are you assuming that the swarms would reoccupy the deadouts? Or that the beekeeper would notice and collect all swarms? What if there aren't deadouts to house swarms in?

And how would "let them die/repopulate w/ swarms" be sustainable? Especially if one doesn't look at the combs in the deadout to see if the colony died from AFB.

What do you, or Warre beekeepers, do w/ a deadout? Do Warre beekeepers leave it alone and let wax moth eat the comb?

[Bush_84]

In my view not inspecting a deadout would be silly. You must know what the cause of death was. I would imagine that it wouldn't be all that hard to inspect a deadout, especially if time was dedicated to comb guides.

I would reuse the comb if the deadout was found to be disease free. You could then repopulate with a swarm, package, or split. There's no need to count on swarms to repopulate your losses. I plan on hopefully purchasing my final bees this year and keeping a steady state with splits.